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Black 2002 Spyder with 2ZZ & 6speed <\3
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, i recently bought my self an spyder with 2zz and 6speed, it’d truly an amazing experience compared to 1zz & 5speed. I’ve researched the 0-100 times and a lot of people are running In the 5s.
Whats bothering me is that my best attempt could only manage a 7.9
I don’t know How much impact a passenger of
80kg and full tank of gas. About 40kg will impact my time. Was hoping for some answers that could tell me that is the problem or if im not driving Well enough.
launching at 3500rpm.
 

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AFAIK you should be doing way better than 7.9 with a 2zz. 6 speed doesn’t matter just which ratios, because it could be the difference between one shift or two. Stock 1zz with SMT is listed as 6.8s I believe, I’ve never tried on my car.

Most likely problem is tires. Are they really old? Were you launching cold? Even if you aren’t going into lift you should be able to do better than 7.9s.
 

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Time of my MR-S 1ZZ > Celica TS C64 transmission with LSD, PPE sport cat + 4-1 header, TTE/Remus exhaust, Fidanza flywheel, PPE cai, body kit, stock 15inch wheels + spaces. Weighted at 958kg withtout the full body kit. Engine was running too rich (AFR of 10~9). While exagerating a little, my MR-S is a 2ZZ without lift ..... This time is reliable. I was using Racelogic Performance Box with external antena. 3500 rpm is too low for a 2ZZ with 80kg passenger. A good launch should be like in this :
Automotive parking light Wheel Tire Car Vehicle
 

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You should beat 7.9s with a stock 1zz. Something is wrong with your setup, whether no lift, intake leak, bad tires causing excessive wheel spin, the dreaded 'driver mod', etc. How are you measuring your 0-60 (0-100) time?
 

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Black 2002 Spyder with 2ZZ & 6speed <\3
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Tyres are Very old and and tread is almost Gone, there is no wheel spin however. Perhaps i need to launch at 4k or higher?

Car goes into lift and «feels» strong. Close to top of 2nd is 100km/h.

I have difficulty getting into 1st & 2nd at high rpm, new brass bushing and longer clutch pushrod will be arriving next Week.

Is there an «easy» way to diagnose intake leak?

Passenger measured by using timer on his phone. We Did it 4 times and all attempts was between 7.9 and 8.2.

I may be dumping the clutch too slowly. Ill give it a try later today and report back.

Thanks for all the help so far 🙏
 

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6 speed doesn’t matter just which ratios, because it could be the difference between one shift or two.
It matters what final drive you have. For this kind of race, there would be only one shift with a 2zz no matter what the gearing is, but the total gear ratio in 1st will determine what kind of launch you will get. The 2zz has pretty much the same torque curve as the 1zz up until lift becomes active, so you would want to have the 4.5 final drive to get a launch that is any better than the OE drivetrain.
 

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Several things:
-Obviously measuring it by hand/eye is not going to be spot on accurate, you can have precision without accuracy however (which it sounds like you do).
-Dragstrip 0-60 times often include that ~1ft of runout (aka a headstart) so they will always be faster than measuring true time from a dead stop (fractions of a second difference, not >1 second
-I'm pretty sure the top of 2nd gear is slightly higher than 100kph but I need to double check
-You can't have bald tires & no wheelspin unless you're pedaling out of the gate or bogging the launch

Forgot to ask, what is your exhaust setup & ECU?

Sorry that I keep saying 0-60mph, I am accustomed to reading 0-100kph & instantly translating it, but never writing it myself in metric
 

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For passing a real 100km/h, speed meter indicator should pass ~105 km/h.
A MR-S with 2zz swap should archived a real 0-100 km/h in 5.5sec. Around 4.9sec with aftermarket camshaft, flywheel and standalone tune.
 

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Black 2002 Spyder with 2ZZ & 6speed <\3
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Several things:
-Obviously measuring it by hand/eye is not going to be spot on accurate, you can have precision without accuracy however (which it sounds like you do).
-Dragstrip 0-60 times often include that ~1ft of runout (aka a headstart) so they will always be faster than measuring true time from a dead stop (fractions of a second difference, not >1 second
-I'm pretty sure the top of 2nd gear is slightly higher than 100kph but I need to double check
-You can't have bald tires & no wheelspin unless you're pedaling out of the gate or bogging the launch

Forgot to ask, what is your exhaust setup & ECU?

Sorry that I keep saying 0-60mph, I am accustomed to reading 0-100kph & instantly translating it, but never writing it myself in metric
Exhaust and Ecu is stock. Most of the car is, i recently Got my hands on it and i will upgrade over the summer. This is just annoying me.
 

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Black 2002 Spyder with 2ZZ & 6speed <\3
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
For passing a real 100km/h, speed meter indicator should pass ~105 km/h.
A MR-S with 2zz swap should archived a real 0-100 km/h in 5.5sec. Around 4.9sec with aftermarket camshaft, flywheel and standalone tune.
it’s weird i was so far off, camshaft is something i wish to do.

Do you guys recommend bringing it to a dyno?
 

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As it happens, I am just finishing up work on a time slip calculator, that is based on my previous gear shift calculator. This program uses some rocket science techniques (literally finite differences, which is how the trajectories of rockets and projectiles were first calculated in WWII - @rmeller might recall that) to generate a 1/4 mile time slip, and as a bonus it includes the 0-60 and 0-100 times. The required inputs are the car's gear ratios, and tire size, and the dyno curve, and the car's weight, and some estimates of how long it takes to shift from gear to gear (shift delay), and the aero characteristices of the car (frontal cross section, and drag coefficient). Without being immodest, this time slip calculator is the first of its kind that I have ever seen posted on the internet. Other time slip calculators are very crude and use only two numbers as inputs, the car's peak HP and weight, without taking into account any other factors.

The car in the model right now looks like a K24 Spyder - I can't recall exactly where that dataset came from. It would be very straightforward for anyone to put in their own dataset. But to answer your question, for this car, adding 40kg to the car's weight (from 2200 to 2288lbs) makes a difference of 0.18sec (from 4.588 to 4.763sec).


Rectangle Font Slope Parallel Pattern
 

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Black 2002 Spyder with 2ZZ & 6speed <\3
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Tell us what transmission you have. If it is the Euro 6 speed with the 3.9 final drive, then that would explain it. Nice for cruising, but mediocre launch.
I honestly dont know, do you know How i Can find out?

Just Did some runs, the best one came in at 7.05 seconds, still incredibly far off, this was only me in the car and timed using a gps app.

I will set off once more to find out What rpm in second is at 105km/h on dash.
 

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Black 2002 Spyder with 2ZZ & 6speed <\3
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As it happens, I am just finishing up work on a time slip calculator, that is based on my previous gear shift calculator. This program uses some rocket science techniques (literally finite differences, which is how the trajectories of rockets and projectiles were first calculated in WWII - @rmeller might recall that) to generate a 1/4 mile time slip, and as a bonus it includes the 0-60 and 0-100 times. The required inputs are the car's gear ratios, and tire size, and the dyno curve, and the car's weight, and some estimates of how long it takes to shift from gear to gear (shift delay), and the aero characteristices of the car (frontal cross section, and drag coefficient). Without being immodest, this time slip calculator is the first of its kind that I have ever seen posted on the internet. Other time slip calculators are very crude and use only two numbers as inputs, the car's peak HP and weight, without taking into account any other factors.

The car in the model right now looks like a K24 Spyder - I can't recall exactly where that dataset came from. It would be very straightforward for anyone to put in their own dataset. But to answer your question, for this car, adding 40kg to the car's weight (from 2200 to 2288lbs) makes a difference of 0.18sec (from 4.588 to 4.763sec).


View attachment 89512
this Looks Very Well done, i will look at it Once im at my pc.
 

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FWIW stock exhaust chokes a lot of power from the 2zz swap. obviously it should still not be slower than a stock 1zz. Transmission/final drive ratio does matter so it would be good to figure that out as well. With the stock midpipe/muffler on you can bring it to a dyno but you will be disappointed even if everything is working perfectly.
 

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105km/h is 7050rpm. 1150rpm from Max. I Guess i have the transmission Rmeller was talking about?
So you probably have EURO MR-S 6 speed. You're second gear is around 120km/h_3rd is 180km/h. That's explain a slower acceleration compare to a 2ZZ with C64 transmisson, but not a 7.5~8sec for a 0-100 km/h. If you can record a video of the acceleration, it will help us a lot. We will see/hear if there is a "potential" problem.
 

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Black 2002 Spyder with 2ZZ & 6speed <\3
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
FWIW stock exhaust chokes a lot of power from the 2zz swap. obviously it should still not be slower than a stock 1zz. Transmission/final drive ratio does matter so it would be good to figure that out as well. With the stock midpipe/muffler on you can bring it to a dyno but you will be disappointed even if everything is working perfectly.
Managed 7 seconds flat today, i felt Alright But timer says otherwise. I Go out of lift When i shift, That’s not Very optimal i assume.
 

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Black 2002 Spyder with 2ZZ & 6speed <\3
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So you probably have EURO MR-S 6 speed. You're second gear is around 120km/h_3rd is 180km/h. That's explain a slower acceleration compare to a 2ZZ with C64 transmisson, but not a 7.5~8sec for a 0-100 km/h. If you can record a video of the acceleration, it will help us a lot. We will see/hear if there is a "potential" problem.
If that’s the case, i would switch transmission or final drive ratio if it isnt Too expensive.

i Can record a video tomorrow, i cannot guarantee quality. Do you want video of speedometer or something Else?
 

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You need to swap the transmission. By experience, the best is to buy refurbished C64 transmission with LSD equiped. Buying a used one is not that good. It can break soon but impossible to tell. The C64 is known to have worned 2nd and 3rd synchros. I bought my refurbished and LSD equipped C64 at Rogue MotorSport in UK 2 years ago. Maybe they still have on left. Shipped from UK to France costed me around 1700 euros. We need a good audio quality. Speedometer is facultative but it's always good to see how an MR-S with a 2ZZ is moving.
 
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