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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
You need to swap the transmission. By experience, the best is to buy refurbished C64 transmission with LSD equiped. Buying a used one is not that good. It can break soon but impossible to tell. The C64 is known to have worned 2nd and 3rd synchros. I bought my refurbished and LSD equipped C64 at Rogue MotorSport in UK 2 years ago. Maybe they still have on left. Shipped from UK to France costed me around 1700 euros. We need a good audio quality. Speedometer is facultative but it's always good to see how an MR-S with a 2ZZ is moving.
Thanks for the recommendation, might just do that after next paycheck. Do you know What i Can sell my 140k km c60(i think) transmission for? LSD is crazy expensive so might skip it.

Good audio quality shouldnt be a problem.

Really appreciate the help. It’d be lost without all of you.
 

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Where do you live? In UK, the LSD is not as expensive as USA because the MR-S in Europe was sold with an LSD from factory. Before my curren C64 LSD, I've driven a used C64 transmission without LSD. I've founded that the MR-S was loosing a little bit of his soul/DNA. As a used transmission, it lasted 1 year before breaking. I recommand you to keep the LSD if you can afforde it. Drive with your MR-S and feel if there is any abnormal hard point (worned synchro, whining noise, dificult to change gear), then clean your transmission and make in for sale on Ebay or marketplace of your country.
 

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02 Spyder with 2ZZ
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Where do you live? In UK, the LSD is not as expensive as USA because the MR-S in Europe was sold with an LSD from factory. Before my curren C64 LSD, I've driven a used C64 transmission without LSD. I've founded that the MR-S was loosing a little bit of his soul/DNA. As a used transmission, it lasted 1 year before breaking. I recommand you to keep the LSD if you can afforde it. Drive with your MR-S and feel if there is any abnormal hard point (worned synchro, whining noise, dificult to change gear), then clean your transmission and make in for sale on Ebay or marketplace of your country.
I live in Norway, buying the LSD would cost me too much money, I want a c60 or similar transmission with 4.529 fd. It sucks being slow off the line with so much potential. I didn't intend to have a economic gearbox :/


I cannot hear any out of ordinary noises even at high rpm, it is most likely the gearbox's high ratio's that's making this problem.
Can get a c60 for 2250$ including toll & shipping, would it be worth it?

On the flip side, i could save another 2000$ and buy myself a turbo kit. I am derailing the thread slightly but i am at a crossroads.
I take it the current transmission i have is more friendly to turbo's due to longer gears. Do you have any input on this?
 

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Longer gearing doesn't help when you fall out of lift on every shift. Obviously thr turbo would get you back into lift quicker than NA but still a limitation that would be present. FWIW if going turbo you will probably necessitate needing the gearbox changed (or just synchros replaced) sooner or later.

Is the small difference in acceleration from changing the trans worth that much cash...personally I don't think so tbh (at a lower cost I would definitely say yes) but ultimately I defer that tough question to you.
 

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02 Spyder with 2ZZ
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Longer gearing doesn't help when you fall out of lift on every shift. Obviously thr turbo would get you back into lift quicker than NA but still a limitation that would be present. FWIW if going turbo you will probably necessitate needing the gearbox changed (or just synchros replaced) sooner or later.

Is the small difference in acceleration from changing the trans worth that much cash...personally I don't think so tbh (at a lower cost I would definitely say yes) but ultimately I defer that tough question to you.
Cannot say it is worth it, might be better off saving money for a different car :(

Gotta love the Spyder tho, truly amazing.
 

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Changing gear ratio make a difference. With my MR-S, I driven with the factory EURO MR-S, the EURO Celica T23 1ZZ and the TS C64 with and without LSD. With my car/engine configuration and the C64 LSD, from a roll the acceleration is ~same as a friend Golf 5 GTD 170 tuned at 230hp (hybrid turbo, intercoller, injectors etc). My car is currently a little bit slower than a stock Golf 5 GTi Edition 30. There is no way an MR-S with EURO transmission can be that quick. All that with the stock ECU. In the past I was using the Apexi PFC but now I do prefer the feeling and a reliability from the stock ECU than the ultimate power. And ultimatly, it's a "sleeper" tune.

2000$ and you only have a turbo kit. You'll have to add more dollars to make it reliable > Dyno tune, oil cooler, water temp, oil temp/pressure gauges (expensive thing). For Turbo application, the C64 will not last long. 3rd and 4th gears are thinner than the others gears, the synchros worn quickly because short ratio and the teeths curves are very strong. Compare to that, the EURO MR-S C60 transmission is less fragile and the teeths are less curved making it stronger than the C64.
 

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I was unable to record today, will do it tomorrow.
Why not have your friend record the speedometer. Then you need to check the speedo accuracy versus GPS to see what is truly 100kph ground speed. Lastly, edit the video to get the actual time. Still not perfect but the best that can be done without going to the track or having expensive equipment IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Changing gear ratio make a difference. With my MR-S, I driven with the factory EURO MR-S, the EURO Celica T23 1ZZ and the TS C64 with and without LSD. With my car/engine configuration and the C64 LSD, from a roll the acceleration is ~same as a friend Golf 5 GTD 170 tuned at 230hp (hybrid turbo, intercoller, injectors etc). My car is currently a little bit slower than a stock Golf 5 GTi Edition 30. There is no way an MR-S with EURO transmission can be that quick. All that with the stock ECU. In the past I was using the Apexi PFC but now I do prefer the feeling and a reliability from the stock ECU than the ultimate power. And ultimatly, it's a "sleeper" tune.

2000$ and you only have a turbo kit. You'll have to add more dollars to make it reliable > Dyno tune, oil cooler, water temp, oil temp/pressure gauges (expensive thing). For Turbo application, the C64 will not last long. 3rd and 4th gears are thinner than the others gears, the synchros worn quickly because short ratio and the teeths curves are very strong. Compare to that, the EURO MR-S C60 transmission is less fragile and the teeths are less curved making it stronger than the C64.
Alright, thats great information. I was hoping for some good news and that i got. I am not going to do a turbo kit cause it is too expensive and don't feel like spending big money for a car im not going to have for a long time. (not very practical).

What time should i be able to achieve with a euro 6 speed with 3.9 final drive as i assume you were talking about, with 2zz? I could perhaps go into the 6's, but i feel like taking so many launches will kill my clutch eventually, i would rather avoid that. 7.05s i is the fastest i can document.

You need to swap the transmission. By experience, the best is to buy refurbished C64 transmission with LSD equiped. Buying a used one is not that good. It can break soon but impossible to tell. The C64 is known to have worned 2nd and 3rd synchros. I bought my refurbished and LSD equipped C64 at Rogue MotorSport in UK 2 years ago. Maybe they still have on left. Shipped from UK to France costed me around 1700 euros. We need a good audio quality. Speedometer is facultative but it's always good to see how an MR-S with a 2ZZ is moving.
I will upload the clip to youtube within the hour, hopefully the quality is good enough, or else ill bring out my gopro.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Mr2 Mk3 2zz C60 3.9 FD 0-100 km/h - YouTube

The clip of the car doing 0-100 in about 7 seconds. Not a perfect run, but one of the only places i could do it without being disturbed by others.

Please let me know if the video is sufficient or if you want me to grab another angle. Also if something is wrong, i would hugely appreciate it.

Thanks all!
 

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Rather than spending money on anything else, start with getting some new good summer tires. And if you plan to drive in the winter of course a set of alternate wheels and snow tires(maybe even studded if allowed in your country). Then if you want to spend more money improve your suspension.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Rather than spending money on anything else, start with getting some new good summer tires. And if you plan to drive in the winter of course a set of alternate wheels and snow tires(maybe even studded if allowed in your country). Then if you want to spend more money improve your suspension.
I am looking to buy 2 new michelin primacy 4+ tyres for fronts. Tyres are old but have plenty of grip still, will probably have to change them this fall. Improving suspension is very expensive, just coilovers alone is about 1500$ if get some with reasonable quality. Price to Fun scale, this isnt very high priority, fixing the slow acceleration is my main concern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
So you probably have EURO MR-S 6 speed. You're second gear is around 120km/h_3rd is 180km/h. That's explain a slower acceleration compare to a 2ZZ with C64 transmisson, but not a 7.5~8sec for a 0-100 km/h. If you can record a video of the acceleration, it will help us a lot. We will see/hear if there is a "potential" problem.

Hi, i uploaded the clip of doing 0-100, would you mind taking a look? :)
Slightly desperate 😅
 

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The long gears ratio definitly kill the acceleration but maybe you still have the 1ZZ stock cat and muffler, explained why the engine is so quiet and down of power, even for a 2ZZ. A 2ZZ swap with a 1ZZ exhaust restriction struggle the power making it less powerfull than the factory 190hp. Adding that with the long gear ratio make a slow 2ZZ swap MR-S. We need picture of the engine bay, exhaust muffler, header and catalityc converter to confirm that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
The long gears ratio definitly kill the acceleration but maybe you still have the 1ZZ stock cat and muffler, explained why the engine is so quiet and down of power, even for a 2ZZ. A 2ZZ swap with a 1ZZ exhaust restriction struggle the power making it less powerfull than the factory 190hp. Adding that with the long gear ratio make a slow 2ZZ swap MR-S. We need picture of the engine bay, exhaust muffler, header and catalityc converter to confirm that.
Thank you, I always suspected this because my other Mr2 1zz is three times as loud, however that Has been modified.
 

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Hi all, i recently bought my self an spyder with 2zz and 6speed, it’d truly an amazing experience compared to 1zz & 5speed. I’ve researched the 0-100 times and a lot of people are running In the 5s.
Whats bothering me is that my best attempt could only manage a 7.9
I don’t know How much impact a passenger of
80kg and full tank of gas. About 40kg will impact my time. Was hoping for some answers that could tell me that is the problem or if im not driving Well enough.
launching at 3500rpm.
It’s probably 100 little things…
 

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02 Spyder with 2ZZ
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
The long gears ratio definitly kill the acceleration but maybe you still have the 1ZZ stock cat and muffler, explained why the engine is so quiet and down of power, even for a 2ZZ. A 2ZZ swap with a 1ZZ exhaust restriction struggle the power making it less powerfull than the factory 190hp. Adding that with the long gear ratio make a slow 2ZZ swap MR-S. We need picture of the engine bay, exhaust muffler, header and catalityc converter to confirm that.
Hi, i have now uploaded the photos :)
 

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It's look like your car has the 1ZZ : airbox, catalytic converter and muffler. Your 2ZZ is asthmatic. Buy a 2ZZ Cold Air Intake (MonkeyWrench Racing or PPE) and full exhaust made for a 2ZZ swap MR-S (PPE) and you will get the 190hp. All that and your 0-100 time will drop easily.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
It's look like your car has the 1ZZ : airbox, catalytic converter and muffler. Your 2ZZ is asthmatic. Buy a 2ZZ Cold Air Intake (MonkeyWrench Racing or PPE) and full exhaust made for a 2ZZ swap MR-S (PPE) and you will get the 190hp. All that and your 0-100 time will drop easily.
Wait, really? I thought for sure some things was done to complete the 2zz swap.

Can i chose to only replace some things in the exhaust system to keep costs down?

Would also appreciate if anyone else could verify before i spend big money.

Thanks again!
 
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