[FriendlyGuy]

Hi.
My new 2001 Spyder with 2zz swap just failed an Emission test (maryland) this morning. There is no check engine lights on. When they plugged into the port under the steering wheel, the monitor just said "connecting" for about a minuet, eventually it said "failed to connect." the technician told me "it actually DID connect, but did not communicate with our system."

I got home and opened up the compartment where the the Toyota computer is mounted. One thing that stands out is there is one bundle of wire that is taped off and does not lead to anything.
I see on the exterior of the Computer is in-fact a 2zz-GE computer.

Does it matter what car (Celica, Lotus, Matrix, etc.) the engine came out of, to tell emissions, or the OBD2 reader? Does it have to match what the computer is? I dont know who did the swap.

Also how do I find what car the engine came from?

I am kind of lost as of now, but luckily, I have 4 months to figure out the OBD2.

If you guys can help me out, Thanks

 

[Cap Weir]

SOME swappers that use the 'Old Excel Files' will remove a LOT of wires that really are not necessary..


I'm thinking that is what the Taped wires are..

Hers is the 'Improved' list for a swap..
http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthread.php?37945-1-and-2-ZZ-ECU-s-Side-by-Side..-Sorta

Make sure you have A11 and B5..

Also hunt for the Plug Wires, and see if the OBD2 Power ( +12 Volt ) is there.. SOME computer systems will not conect if the 12 Volt is missing at the OBD2 Port..

A Quick way to check, is purchase a Cheap OBD2 Reader.. if it will conect, than all is OK..

Cap

 

[FriendlyGuy]

Great thanks a lot!

 

[FriendlyGuy]

Thanks Cap,

I made some diagnoses with the help of your charts. As you mentioned, I made sure A-11 and B-5 are connected and they are connected.

There are 3 possible issues I see now:

1) The first thing I noticed one of the connector contacts on the OBD2 connector side is barely making any friction when I put a pin into slot. That will most likely be the cheapest/first thing to, but I have never put together a new connector like this before. I will likely be starting from scratch. I check youtube on DIYs.

2) Where your deep knowledge is critical... below is a printout of the OBD2 connector and pinout diagram with my notes. I have 7 wires coming from pins: 4, 5, 6, 7, 13, 14, and 16.

4 - Ground
5 - Signal Ground
6 - CAN (J-2234) High - (10.7 V) *?*
7 - ISO 9141-2 K-Line - (10.7 V) (This is A-11 on Cap's charts)

13 - Vender Option - (10.7 V) (This is B-5 on Cap's charts)
14 - CAN (J-2234) Low - (10.7 V) *?*
16 - Battery Power - (11.8 V)

*?* My question is in regards to pin 6 AND 14 [CAN (J-2234) High and Low]. Do I need both??? one or the other. Could using both be confusion for the computer?

3) Last issue, The computer itself looks like it it had water on it BEFORE it was put in the car. It has some oxidation on the surface which you may be able to see in the picture from my first post here. I may need a new computer. any thoughts?


Any thoughts in general? Again THANKS for your help!!!

-Steve

 

[dev]

This is why a swap harness is the way to go with these swaps. I wonder if your OBD2 system that will illuminate a CEL is even working.

If worse comes to worse you can ask for a downgrade in Maryland and they will use the sniffer instead.

 

[dev]

BTW my garage will be free after the 27th if you would like to come by so we can work on your car. I have a spare 2zz ECU we could try if you think it's damaged.
We will just need you to pick up a cheap code reader and if it reads then we can run up the street to the emissions center and try and pass it.

 

[FriendlyGuy]

This is great news, Thanks Dev. I really appreciate that.
I may end up needing the sniffer test, but lets see how this stuff goes. I have till Nov 28th to pass, I think.

I wouldnt have known what to look for if there was or wasn't a swap harness. I dont know what "illuminate the CEL" means.

I have a such a list of things to take care of for this car, obviously this MD emissions is next up.

Thanks

 

[dev]

This is great news, Thanks Dev. I really appreciate that.
I may end up needing the sniffer test, but lets see how this stuff goes. I have till Nov 28th to pass, I think.

I wouldnt have known what to look for if there was or wasn't a swap harness. I dont know what "illuminate the CEL" means.

I have a such a list of things to take care of for this car, obviously this MD emissions is next up.

Thanks

A CEL is just an acronym for Check Engine Light. If your car runs into a problem then the light on the dash will be illuminated.
If the machine is not able to connect then there is a possibility that the CEL may not be working as well based on that butcher job on the harness. I have been taking my cars for over two decades every two years and I hate to say it but those guys down at the emmision station are complete dumb asses and I doubt they understand what is and what is not connecting. They are just robots that receive poor training.

FYI I have taken my swapped Spyder three times already and have passed so that is not an issue. What you can do is disconnect your MAF plug and start your car to see if you can throw a check engine light.

 

[FriendlyGuy]

I know what a Check Engine Light (CEL) is after all.

I used my friend's OBD2 reader (hooks up to his laptop). He is an experienced mechanic and uses OBD2 often. He came with me to check out the car when I bought it too last may. He is really getting enthusiastic about the MR2 Spyder. He kept saying "I LOVE this car!" haha. I do too, but he thinks my idle/hesitation problems are all in my head.
(SIDE NOTE: and now, if I am in neutral costing at some speed, the RPMs fluctuate from drop when I take it out of gear naturally, but drop to about 600 RPM, then adjusted and bumps up to about 1900 RPM, and drops and this cycle continues. The Idle is never the same from week to week. ICV?)

The only other problem is that I dont know WHAT YEAR the 2zz engine came from. We ended up going down the list of years for Celicas and MR2s, but still did not connect. I dont know if the is completely necessary for OBD2 to connect or not.

The MAF disconnect is a good idea, or at least it sounds like it will work to test the light.

 

[Cap Weir]

My money says you have a JDM ECU..

If you sit at the Google Machine and start typing in the Numbers you see on the ECU, it'll tell you..

Cap

 

[dev]

My money says you have a JDM ECU..

If you sit at the Google Machine and start typing in the Numbers you see on the ECU, it'll tell you..

Cap

Cap good catch.

Also do you think this could be a TPS problem. I'm starting to suspect this is you know whose work since he is one of the very few that splices into the wires rather then the swap harness. This is certainly not a shops or LRs work as they always use a swap connector.

 

[dev]

I know what a Check Engine Light (CEL) is after all.

I used my friend's OBD2 reader (hooks up to his laptop). He is an experienced mechanic and uses OBD2 often. He came with me to check out the car when I bought it too last may. He is really getting enthusiastic about the MR2 Spyder. He kept saying "I LOVE this car!" haha. I do too, but he thinks my idle/hesitation problems are all in my head.
(SIDE NOTE: and now, if I am in neutral costing at some speed, the RPMs fluctuate from drop when I take it out of gear naturally, but drop to about 600 RPM, then adjusted and bumps up to about 1900 RPM, and drops and this cycle continues. The Idle is never the same from week to week. ICV?)

The only other problem is that I dont know WHAT YEAR the 2zz engine came from. We ended up going down the list of years for Celicas and MR2s, but still did not connect. I dont know if the is completely necessary for OBD2 to connect or not.

The MAF disconnect is a good idea, or at least it sounds like it will work to test the light.

Yes you need ODB2 functionality for the ecu to connect to the emission machine which is nothing more then a overblown code reader. All it does is see if there are any registered codes which would be obvious with seeing a CEL light.
That guy at the emissions station that told you it did connect is wrong.

Anyway I suspect four possibilities.

1. JDM ECU as CAP pointed out.
2. Botched up wiring job.
3. Intentional Botched up wiring job to fool a potential buyer so that no CEL will be lit. There have been two fraudulent sellers that intentionally removed the LED that lights up the CEL, imagine that.
4. Bad ECU

Check to see if you can cause a CEL and get back to us.

 

[Cap Weir]

I chased down the numbers of the ECU you have ( read them off the Picture ) 89666-20060 .. It's a JDM..

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5519749&postcount=5

Cap

 

[FriendlyGuy]

Thanks,


So JDM ECUs do not use protocols that OBD2 reads..... great.

( http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2806783 )

First step now is see if CEL will come on. Ill do that in a few hours.

I did find the guy I bought the car from was not truthful on a handful of accounts; he is on spyderchat. I know people dont like him here. More on that later.

Ill let you know how it goes.

 

[triz]

Its not the end of the world. Find yourself a US spec Ecu and go from there.

 

[Cap Weir]

Its not the end of the world. Find yourself a US spec Ecu and go from there.

YEA.. what he said.. ^^^

Cap

 

[dev]

Thanks,


So JDM ECUs do not use protocols that OBD2 reads..... great.

( http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2806783 )

First step now is see if CEL will come on. Ill do that in a few hours.

I did find the guy I bought the car from was not truthful on a handful of accounts; he is on spyderchat. I know people dont like him here. More on that later.

Ill let you know how it goes.

Yes please let us know. If it's a Bottlefed swap you will need to check your TPS wires.

 

[FriendlyGuy]

With Engine running, CEL comes on when I unplug the MAF, and engine shuts off.

ha...what are TPS wires, Bottlefed?

Maybe I can pick up that ECU from you, dev, tomorrow in Rockville... if tomorrow isnt good, no worries.

Im going to pick up a simple OBD2 reader now. Iv always wanted one.

 

[carlbecker]

Bottlefed is a person who has done 2zz swaps. Appears to not have a good record here. Seems as though he does a poor job with the throttle position sensor wiring. I have not seen his work only read about issues here. I don't do 2zz either.

 

[dev]

With Engine running, CEL comes on when I unplug the MAF, and engine shuts off.

ha...what are TPS wires, Bottlefed?

Maybe I can pick up that ECU from you, dev, tomorrow in Rockville... if tomorrow isnt good, no worries.

Im going to pick up a simple OBD2 reader now. Iv always wanted one.

It looks like I will not be at the Thursday meet. In regard to the ECU I can only let you use it in my possession if you want to test it out and run up and get an emissions test. I would let you borrow it but I have been down that road before where I had to hunt for my stuff and with something like the ECU which is critical for me to diagnose my problems and emissions testing that are coming up next year I can't let it out of my sight.