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how do you guys have catostrophic oil consumption problems? is it that you dont check it every 1 week? or is it a problem that cant be helped... the oil just shoots out of there all of a sudden and the engine breaks down.
 

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when the pre-cats fail they consume oil at a very rapid pace and many times the car that had the failure never burned any oil between oil changes thus the owner saw no need to check the oil more then once or twice between changes. this could all be avoided by buying a new header or by gutting the pre-cats you have now... hence the purpose of this thread :roll:

go here to find out more information http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/search.php
 
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At 69K, I got a blown ring... Will Toyota replace the engine

The pre-cats on my car is bad, blocking the exhaust flow and thus causing excessive back pressure that forced the rings to give. This just happened on my 2000 Spyder, which has 69K and it out of warranty.

If I bring the car to a Toyota dealership, will they take care of it for free?

Thanks,

Hancock

[email protected]
 
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2001 Spyder - ODO: 68K

I just had my ignition coils replaced because I was experiencing the same symptoms. Rev limit was about 2.5K, top speed about 35-40mph.

The mechanic that worked on the car says the catalytic converter disintegrated, and ruined my muffler, which caused my ignition coils to go.

I just read through the "New Owner's Warranty Guide" and it lists the catalytic converter as an 8/80 replacement part. So apparantly it's covered by the warranty until 8 years or 80k miles.

I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer now about if they'll actually honor the warranty or what not. I'll post an update when I hear more.

If anyone else has experience with getting this covered under the warranty, please post your story too.
 
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So now I'm trying to get Toyota to honor my 8/80 warranty on the cat.

Here's my story.

2001 MR2 Spyder
68K miles

The Spyder was running perfect, until one day I'm driving home and it loses all it's strength. I brought it to my mechanic (who I trust and was very close to where this happened) and he found the cylinders were misfiring because the ignition coils were burnt. He replaced the ignition coils, and gave it a full tuneup, and the car still had no power. He found the muffler was clogged up, so disconnected it and the car got all it's power back. He explained to me that the catalytic converter melted, clogged up the muffler, and the backfire from the exhaust caused the coils to burn out.

So I made an appointment at the local dealership (A-1 Toyota) and I spent 4 hours this morning waiting for them to diagnose the issue. They handed me an estimate for $3475.00 (+tax) to replace the exhaust system (including sensors, etc from the manifold back). The service guy said it isn't covered under the warranty because "something" caused the fuel to run too rich and melt the cat, and that's classified as an external force.

I called Toyota Customer Care and told them the story, but they rely on the dealership to diagnose the issue and cause, so that doesn't help at all.

I've asked my mechanic to speak with the dealership and try to reason with them the logic of the situation. If the dealership will admit that the catalytic converter was the root cause of this, then Toyota Customer Care says they will honor the warranty and replace what needs replacing.
 
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Help me understand this precat thing!!

Ok, I just purchased a used (near mint cond.) 2000 Spyder. It has 44,000 miles. Then I get on here and read through these precat failure boards. So, now I'm quite insecure about my purchase and am considering buying a 60 month 100,00 mile warranty for $1300.

Bu can someone explain to me how something in the exhaust line goes backwards into the engine? I'm having problems figuring out the physics of how something from the cat can go backwards into the engine??

Thanks for your help!
 
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I also have the extra-care warranty. I've learned that warranty's are worthless, in most circumstances. I think the only things they cover in the warranty are things that will not break, unless you really try to break them. I've had other problems with the car (hood latch, misaligned steering wheel), and now the catalytic converter (in the basic warranty for 8year/80K miles). Things that are obviously design flaws, but all the dealers in my area have denied coverage for any of my issues.

Bu can someone explain to me how something in the exhaust line goes backwards into the engine? I'm having problems figuring out the physics of how something from the cat can go backwards into the engine??
I don't know either, I'm no mechanic. I believe that there was lots of pressure build-up inside the engine from the clogged exhaust, but that's my guess.[/quote]
 

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Precats

If you search for precat failure in this list you will find a lot of hits! I am not an expert on this but I believe that what happens is that there is a small amount of time when the exhaust valve is still open that there is some suction. If the precats have started to fail then small particles will be sucked into the cylinder. The small particles get scraped against the cylinder walls. The scratches will casue the rings to leave oil in the scratches this get burned and oil leve goes down. But there lots of theorys about this but nothing conclusive. I would read what you find when searching for precat failures. I have a 2001 Spyder, 45k miles with precats still in there. I am going to gut mine just to be safe. I have a 5 yr warranty, I read mine closely and mine says that the warranty expires when the 6 year mark for the car, no my car but 2001 warranty will expire Jan 1 2006, not when the car was bought in 2001. When you search for precat failure you will find that some get their engines replaced by warranty and others do not. Some are balmed on low oil, over revving the engine precats and other reasons.The cost of replacing the engine is outrageous. Since this board is populated with folks that are enthusiasts they might push their cars more than the avreage folks and causing some of the failures. The dipstick on the sypders might be causing part of the problem, it is almost impossible to get a good reading with it. I still think the failure rate it really high.
 
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It's been quite a while since I last poked around the Spyder Chat forums and since I never ran into any major issues with my 2001 Spyder, I didn't spend any time here in the troubleshooting topic. However, with the freakishly warm winter (at least in the North East), spring fever has already started eating away at me and I have found myself back at the Spyder Chat forums in anticipation of that first spring drive.

Now my MR2 is a summer time, sunny day, top down driver and as a result only has about 18,000 miles on it. Other than the TRD Stage 1 Body Kit, TTE Spoiler, and Z3 style antenna, the car is 100% stock, mechanically speaking. My school of thought regarding the Spyder has been that Toyota engineered and built the Spyder and therefore Toyota knows what's best for the Spyder. As a result I have steered clear of even the most minor mechanical modifications.

After reading page after page of 2000 and 2001 MR2's experiencing engine failure, I've begun considering the removal of the PreCats. Other than an obvious increase in emissions, are there any other issues I should consider before attempting this modification?

*edit* Has anyone in NY or CA removed the PreCats and still been able to pass emissions testing?
 

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Discussion Starter #72
People have reported being able to pass the CA emissions test with no precats. They had to make sure the car was warmed up though.

Sorry, can't find the references, but I'm sure a good search will yield results.
 

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How to prevent engine/cat failure?

Greetings everyone, I used to own a 2001 Spyder, but after two warranty engine replacements I got both frustrated and scared about the future and ditched the car right away. It broke my heart.

However, I am now just about to purchase a 2003 model. I've noticed that there don't seem to be the same number of 2003 model problems as the others. Also the car already has 60,000 miles on it. I noticed the majority of problems seem to occur before then.

Still, I am concerned, having been bitten once, and I would like to do whatever I can to mitigate the problem. To that end I have a couple of questions.

1. Why is there more than 1 catalytic converter. I presume the pre cats, heat up faster and are used mostly for start up, which is why some Spyders pass emissions even when they are hollowed out. True?

2. Does putting a header on the car, replace those cats, giving dual benefits?

3. If the pre cats are gutted, is the main cat a problem?

4. Can the precats be replaced by something more robust, so that the engine AND the environment are spared?

I figured I would dispatch the cats right away, check it regularly and keep a close eye on the oil. If that fails and the engine goes, I will replace it with something I have more faith in, like a 4agze or a 1mzfe. That way I can have my car, reliability AND increased horsepower/torque. Still I will feel pretty silly if I fall for this twice.

Any comments?
 

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Discussion Starter #74
Re: How to prevent engine/cat failure?

ozone,

Sorry to hear about your previous experiences. I put this post up exactly for people like you, but unfortunately, if you don't find spyderchat, you'll never know there was a known problem...

I'm glad you're not letting your previous experience deter you from considering another spyder. Just goes to show how smart mr-s owners are :mrgreen: (or was that foolhardy?) Here are the answers to your questions:

Originally posted by ozone
1. Why is there more than 1 catalytic converter. I presume the pre cats, heat up faster and are used mostly for start up, which is why some Spyders pass emissions even when they are hollowed out. True?
Precisely. People have reported passing smog, even in CA, but only after warming up the car.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
2. Does putting a header on the car, replace those cats, giving dual benefits?[/b]
Yup. AFAIK, ALL aftermarket headers replace the precats. You can search for "che header" to find a good alternative.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
3. If the pre cats are gutted, is the main cat a problem?[/b]
The main cat will be fine as long as there isn't any existing damage from the pre-cats.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
4. Can the precats be replaced by something more robust, so that the engine AND the environment are spared?[/b]
Not to my limited knowledge.

Its seems 03+ models aren't affected as much, but this isn't really confirmed. I hope you got the fast color this time
 

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holy crap,.,, i need everyones help,,,after doing thorough reading,,, i too am sucking all my oil... last time i changed it was hitting the low line,,, and my car just started the rattling sound of the end,,, im at 78500 miles and i got the car at 70,000,,, i dont noe if its original engine or not,,, just that i have a problem... wat to do??? wat to replace? and wants the rattling starts ,,, is it to late for the engine
 

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has anyone had their engine go like this after having gutted the precats?

in other words, is gutting the precats a sure way of avoiding this engine failure?

will the car pass a sniffer test without the precats?

will it throw a CEL w/o the precats?


if it cant pass smog, is there any way to put a better catalytic converter in that will do the job?
 

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not sure if this counts or not...

I purchased a PPE header + DP, and while replacing, noticed that one pre-cat was missing.

did the swap anyway

the damage had already been done to the engine
within a week the oil ran dry and the engine started clacking.

It seems to me that the main cat was already clogged and the precat dust had already gotten into the engine,
but it takes a little while for it to completely destroy the engine.
 

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I know this is an old thread, But basically all I have to do to prevent this is gut my precats or get a precat-removal header? that sounds too easy to be true. Is there any longterm ill effects on the rest of the emissions system but getting rid of the pre cat material? I tried seraching for this, couldnt get a solid yes or no for either of these questions.
 

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Originally posted by 'Isphius'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('Isphius')</div>
I know this is an old thread, But basically all I have to do to prevent this is gut my precats or get a precat-removal header? that sounds too easy to be true.[/b]
Correct.

<!--QuoteBegin-'Isphius'

Is there any longterm ill effects on the rest of the emissions system but getting rid of the pre cat material?
Not at all. It you live in an area where emissions tests are performed you just want to make sure the engine is fully warmed up before you go in for testing.
 

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I hate to post in such an old thread, but how can I take a look at the car and see if the precats have been removed before I buy it? Would most sellers be alright with me taking it somewhere to have it looked at first? (Assuming I don't tell them that I'd be taking stuff apart to check the precats?)
Thanks.
 
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