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Also interested in Honda vs 2ZZ.

All comparisons appreciated.

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199 Posts

Also interested in Honda vs 2ZZ.

All comparisons appreciated.

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Anything below lift is essentially the same for the 1zz vs 2zz, just FYI

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Not too surprising, thanks for the observation.Anything below lift is essentially the same for the 1zz vs 2zz, just FYI

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Personal MR-S experience: 1ZZ, K20, K24

I removed a healthy 1zz and swapped a K20a2 into my 2003. Huge difference at all engine speeds, but when lift kicks in on the K, the feeling is just incredible. My K is stock with headers, 2.5 custom exhaust, CAI, Hondata, and RSX 6-speed.

Also interested in Honda vs 2ZZ.

All comparisons appreciated.

If you compare the power curve of the 1zz to any new engine, you can calculate the % difference in acceleration you will feel at any engine speed. The difference will be precisely the % difference in Power at any rpm, not Torque. Let me emphasize, the torque differences will not tell you anything. this is why: Power or Torque? – Roth Automotive Science

Dave

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Power is the rate of performing work, or the rate of energy transfer, which is a very important metric that connects the various engineering fields together, but it is not mutually exclusive from torque or velocity in rotating machines.

You cannot have a high HP engine without increased torque (rotational force at the wheels) at a given RPM. Torque is measured directly and many dyno's use this value either directly or indirectly when creating the performance curves.

IMHO, a nearly flat torque curve is where its at for a performance car, while trucks need increased torque at the low end.

Just thought I would throw a little water on your fire. 😁

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Power is everything. You can increase torque with gearing but not power.

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LOL, power cannot be generated in a wheel without torque... These metrics are not mutually exclusive, therefore power cannot exist in your car without torque since they are directly proportional to each other...Power is everything. You can increase torque with gearing but not power.

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Actually I haven't driven a normally aspirated K, just a turb'd version. I asked the question because I'm trying to figure out how much difference is there between a 1ZZ (or 2ZZ), before the K20 starts making boost (~ 3300 rpm). From the different responses, sounds like a lot of difference.

Personal MR-S experience: 1ZZ, K20, K24

Thanks to everyone for their insights.

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You all seem to understand the concept of 'power' better than I do. When I look at a dyno sheet, I get a pretty good sense of how a car will perform and 'feel' based on the HP and torque curves. How does 'power' factor in relative to interpreting a series of dyno runs?LOL, power cannot be generated in a wheel without torque... These metrics are not mutually exclusive, therefore power cannot exist in your car without torque since they are directly proportional to each other...

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Power (watts) = torque (N-m) x angular velocity (radians/sec)You all seem to understand the concept of 'power' better than I do. When I look at a dyno sheet, I get a pretty good sense of how a car will perform and 'feel' based on the HP and torque curves. How does 'power' factor in relative to interpreting a series of dyno runs?

or HP = (RPM x Torque (lb-ft)) / 5,252

So, calculations are simple.

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Lets examine the picture HP definition.

Horse A is 1 HP horse and can move a 550lb object 1ft in 1s.

Horse B is 1 HP horse and can move a 55lb object 10ft in 1s.

Horse C is 1 HP horse and can move a 5.5lb object 100ft in 1s.

All three horses have the same HP rating and can theoretically perform the same work, but in reality, they are all quite different.

HP is a derived term that looses its meaning without knowing the details of the numbers that created it.

You can argue all you want about the great HP number, but ponder this -> Everything has the capability to produce energy but nothing is energy. So the rate of energy conversion is meaningless without knowing the details related to the specific conversion.

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Power at the flywheel is a theoretical value and will be zero if no work is being performed. Once the engine is connected to a load, power can be calculated since Linear Force or Torque and Linear Velocity or Angular Velocity can be measured. Once these variables are known, a specific HP value can be determined at a specific operating point.

If your assumptions were correct, I could measure HP in first gear and it would be exactly the same as HP measured in high gear but this is not true since the work would be quite different.

The Dyno operator puts in corrections for the final gearing, the drivetrain losses, and other small variables all in an effort to predict HP but since the HP readings are dependent on torque and velocity, the only accurate reading will be what is measured at the wheels, which is a torque and velocity reading.

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