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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With a forthcoming upgrade to coilovers (with camber plates up front), I'm thinking about what initial alignment spec I'd like to use. The setup will be 4kg/6kg front/rear spring-rates and I'm going to stick with stock swaybars to begin with. Will be using summer tires only - thinking Bridgestone RE-11s in 205/50-15 square config on 8" wheels. Current setup is stock and it will be a dual-purpose car, doing about 35 miles per week on a freeway and the rest spirited canyon runs and I'm hoping to do maybe 4-5 trackdays per year. The emphasis is really on performance - I don't mind a little compromise on a short freeway drive twice per week.

To keep things simple to start with, I was going to have toe set to zero front and rear, and simply set negative camber front and rear. My understanding is that toe has a much bigger impact on tire wear than negative camber. I appreciate settings are affected by numerous variables, but from reading the forum, it seems that, for my style of driving, a ballpark front camber of -2.0 to -2.5 would work well, and -1.5 in the rear. How does that sound?

Alternatively, could I get the camber plates "calibrated" when I have the alignment, such that I can mark a range of camber values on the plates and adjust them to suit the application - i.e. road or track? Obviously depends on how much camber range I can get from my setup. I should note that I have a set of eccentric camber bolts for the alignment (one for each strut), so that should give some extra camber range, in addition to the camber plates.

Thanks!
 

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With a forthcoming upgrade to coilovers (with camber plates up front), I'm thinking about what initial alignment spec I'd like to use. The setup will be 4kg/6kg front/rear spring-rates and I'm going to stick with stock swaybars to begin with. Will be using summer tires only - thinking Bridgestone RE-11s in 205/50-15 square config on 8" wheels. Current setup is stock and it will be a dual-purpose car, doing about 35 miles per week on a freeway and the rest spirited canyon runs and I'm hoping to do maybe 4-5 trackdays per year. The emphasis is really on performance - I don't mind a little compromise on a short freeway drive twice per week.

To keep things simple to start with, I was going to have toe set to zero front and rear, and simply set negative camber front and rear. My understanding is that toe has a much bigger impact on tire wear than negative camber. I appreciate settings are affected by numerous variables, but from reading the forum, it seems that, for my style of driving, a ballpark front camber of -2.0 to -2.5 would work well, and -1.5 in the rear. How does that sound?

Alternatively, could I get the camber plates "calibrated" when I have the alignment, such that I can mark a range of camber values on the plates and adjust them to suit the application - i.e. road or track? Obviously depends on how much camber range I can get from my setup. I should note that I have a set of eccentric camber bolts for the alignment (one for each strut), so that should give some extra camber range, in addition to the camber plates.

Thanks!
I would definitely agree with zero toe front. Zero toe rear is fine too, although a touch of toe-in is acceptable. Toe out in the back makes it do wonky things. Toe out at the front makes the car twitchy at high speed.

2 degrees or so is the maximum of what you'll need/want on the street. I get a touch of inside-tire camber wear at 2 degrees. For track days, you could just lift the front of the car up and move the camber plates in.

1.5 degrees is fine in the back.
 

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Do not square your tires!

Stagger is a must on this car or the rear will be in front of you before you blink!

That's all I know..
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I would definitely agree with zero toe front. Zero toe rear is fine too, although a touch of toe-in is acceptable. Toe out in the back makes it do wonky things. Toe out at the front makes the car twitchy at high speed.

2 degrees or so is the maximum of what you'll need/want on the street. I get a touch of inside-tire camber wear at 2 degrees. For track days, you could just lift the front of the car up and move the camber plates in.

1.5 degrees is fine in the back.
Thanks. I'll see if I can get it set up with -2.0 as the "base" setting on the front and then ask the alignment person to see how the markings on the camber plate would correspond to more camber (if available), so it could be adjusted for trackdays.

Stagger is a must on this car or the rear will be in front of you before you blink!
It really isn't.
 

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I wouldn't adjust camber for track days since it will throw off your toe as well.

I'd also get a stiffer front swaybar imo or ditch the rear bar but keep the stock front one.

More camber upfront than in the rear = oversteer
Square tire setup = oversteer

Stock has more camber in the rear and more tire in the rear.

Thats why I'm suggesting a stiffer front swaybar since that = understeer and will counteract some of the oversteer bias your creating. Running toe in on the rear will also = understeer and I'd recommend that as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks - I had forgotten that the camber adjustment could modify toe.

I understand how a non-staggered tyre setup can influence understeer/oversteer bias and I have considered going up to a Che front sway bar (22mm), but I'm a big fan of practice to support theory: i.e. trying it out first. I drive a square setup with the stock suspension right now and it is by no means oversteering wildly - but then again, I understand my limits on the street.

Also, you're assuming that the stock setup is the "gold standard" of neutral handling, when it's probably more on the understeer-oriented side.

Just food for thought...
 

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Thanks - I had forgotten that the camber adjustment could modify toe.

I understand how a non-staggered tyre setup can influence understeer/oversteer bias and I have considered going up to a Che front sway bar (22mm), but I'm a big fan of practice to support theory: i.e. trying it out first. I drive a square setup with the stock suspension right now and it is by no means oversteering wildly - but then again, I understand my limits on the street.

Also, you're assuming that the stock setup is the "gold standard" of neutral handling, when it's probably more on the understeer-oriented side.

Just food for thought...
The stock setup is the gold standard for understeer. It rolls a lot and transitions slowly.

4/6 spring rates are more of an understeer setup. Still on the soft side. With stock swaybars it will be nuetral with slight understeer mostly because of the rear bar. If you completely remove the rear bar it will lean more towards understeer.

Each driver prefers a different setup. Until you drive the car with a few different setups you won't really know what suits you.

Basically you can't fix something until you know if anything is wrong with it.
 

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Do not square your tires!

Stagger is a must on this car or the rear will be in front of you before you blink!

That's all I know..
its not a must lol.....


Im running 205/50/15 all around on a 15x8 wheel with -1.8 camber all around. car handles amazing considering im on falken ziex ze502's (all season tire). the car rotates it when i want too but also gets a tad bit of understeer sometimes... i need to get some better tires though when i hit the track
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
4/6 spring rates are more of an understeer setup. Still on the soft side. With stock swaybars it will be nuetral with slight understeer mostly because of the rear bar. If you completely remove the rear bar it will lean more towards understeer.
In that case, a square tyre setup could balance it nicely. I'm going to try it. Worst-case scenario, I could stiffen the front.

In summary, I think I'll go for an initial alignment of:

Front Camber = -2.0
Rear Camber = -1.5
Front & Rear Toe = 0
 

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Do not square your tires!

Stagger is a must on this car or the rear will be in front of you before you blink!

That's all I know..
It's not that bad. I ran square for years. If you have the alignment setup for it you'll be fine.
 

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In that case, a square tyre setup could balance it nicely. I'm going to try it. Worst-case scenario, I could stiffen the front.

In summary, I think I'll go for an initial alignment of:

Front Camber = -2.0
Rear Camber = -1.5
Front & Rear Toe = 0
It's a good place to start. If you do decide you want to tune in some more understeer, a swaybar is a phone call away.
 

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Do not square your tires!

Stagger is a must on this car or the rear will be in front of you before you blink!

That's all I know..
As other people have said, it's not bad. For me, it helped the balance of my car a ton! I think the stock setup is prone to waaay too much understeer. With a square setup, I feel that at slow speeds it still understeers a little and at high speeds, it oversteers. Guess I need a giant wing! :lol: But really, I have had numerous people drive my car and say it has amazing balance.
 

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I agree with zero toe (Front&rear). Especially with polyurethane bushed car.
 
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