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Discussion Starter #1
I used the words budget and turbo together to get some attention.
I have some spare parts laying around. And I can Tig and do some machining. I finished re-assembling my 2zz last night and was going to install it back into the car this week, but then I started thinking about the spare parts. I tried searching already but could not find answers to a few specific areas that would make y decision for me.. Namely:
- how much boost / power can a typical 100% stock internals 2zz take with conservative tuning?
- How much torque can a stock clutch handle

IF both the motor and the clutch can take about 175 ft lb I think it would be worthwhile to slap a tiny turbo on there + EMS. If I would need to upgrade just the clutch, I might be willing to do so, but I do not want to use anyting other than a full face street disc + heavier pressure plate. I have had enough of 4 and 6 puck spung and unsprung experiences with other cars. If a stock clutch can handle 175 ft/lb for ~10k miles I will go with it and low boost just to get a wider torquier powerband. If a pressure plate upgrade with stock or similar disc will handler 225ish ft lb, AND the stock 2zz could handle that decently reliably, I would go for it. Otherwise, I would not bother and would just leave it stock. This is a 4th car for my Wife and I, so breaking things is okay. It has been off the rd for 3 years now anyways, so no matter what, I am assembling it as stock as possible to get it on the road as my sunny day commuter car, but now is the time to decide on a clutch or not.
So recap:
stock clutch if it and motor will handle 175 ft lb.
pressure plate upgrade if it and motor will handle 225 ft lb.
if neither, leave completely stock for now and play with other more interesting motors in other more interesting platforms.
 

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I know silversprint has been running 7psi (295whp) for quite a while on a stock internal 2zz. I dunno about the clutch though, my guess is it probably won't last very long.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
so if his 295 whp is around 7800 rpm that should be about 200 ft lb. I highly doubt the stock clutch would handle that for very long, and I suspect he would make more than 200 ft lb in the 7000 rpm range..
But at only 7 psi that is good power for stock internals. Seems like it might be worthwhile to get a pressure plate and then run 5-7 psi. My current motor was 160 whp with a horribly ghetto header / 90 degree bend exhaust set up.
 

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By stock clutch if you mean stock Toyota clutch then no it can't handle a turbo 2zz. The stock clutch can barely handle NA 2zz power.

The hardest part of the 2zz turbo is getting the Tune correct, making sure the engine never has knock, ever. Also good intercooling is very important.

If you just want to slap a turbo on and skimp on the accessories then I would say just leave it NA.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
no, It will not be slap a turbo on and "hope".
I have 4-5 spare turbos of varying sizes, same number of IC cores, plenty of weld els to build a manifold from, or more likely repurpose a 4->1 race header with a failed merge design into a twinscroll header. I have plenty of injector sets in sizes from ~stock to 720 cc laying around. I have one megasquirt left, but have never done a parallel EMS install on a zz motor, so would probably not use the megasquirt, would probably pick up another emange or a power fc depending on what was avail a deal / trade in the used market. It would not be a hack job, it would be an "if this is easy enough to make me be bothered to do it" job.

I searched a bit on your username and saw some ongoing tranny / clutch issues . Are you back to a 5 speed + an ACT clutch now? fond a thread with a failed spec clutch, and another with a 6 speed noise that may or may not have been input shaft bearings? Your 2zz turbo is stock internally, right? I am assuming you are on power FC as it seems to be what 90% of spyder owners use?
 

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My transmission failures were on another car which had a turbo 1zz and only 230hp. However it was tracked extensively with 265 race tires. The transmissions die from excessive heat and tracks use. I stopped buying used transmission. I just buy new 5-speeds from Toyota with the stock LSD. It's not worth the trouble.

Yes my 2zz engine is stock, at least until it dies. I am running PowerFc.
 

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To my knowledge, no one has ran a megasquirt on a zz engine, at least not in a spyder. For a clutch, ACT makes some good full face clutches that hold well and most go with them when doing FI. Remember the 2zz is high compression in stock form, which limits it boost wise.

With all that said, I would say for street use, 295 whp in a spyder would go from fun to challenging.
 

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1 - Its not really a "boost" issue, its a detonation / power issue with the stock rings and ring lands. They fail very quickly at 350whp, pretty regularly at 325. 300 has been done safely on a good tune, but they have failed below that point on a shitty tune with heavy detonation. Everything else will handle way more than the chassis will. Get yourself some VERY effective intercooling, a good fuel system and a properly sized turbo and a good tune will last you at 300.

2 - Don't really know, except I have never heard of the stocker lasting long with any kind of turbo on it. I would go with an ACT or TRD (they are made by RPS now) full face.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
All good info guys, thanks. It looks like it would be worth it to toss a small turbo on there. I will just use the stock clutch and see if it gets me to 225-250 whp. For how little it will cost me it will be worth it to get an extra 60-100 whp. I just do not want to fall into teh mod more and more trap with this car or else I will start looking at the spare solara 5 speed, darton sleeves etc etc. maybe the clutch can be my good behavior 'fuse'
 

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Don't bother with the stock clutch, it will slip 100%. Get a stage 2 Competition clutch and it will be almost as smooth as the stocker, just slightly heavier pedal feel. I'd replace the clutch before even starting the turbo build, then you won't have to undo pipings or any other junk in the way. Trust me it's not even fun to drive the car with the stock clutch, you can't even hit boost.
 

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The NA clutch can slip on an NA car at or below 200hp.
 

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Turbo wise be sure to use something with a large A/R - get too small and it completely kills the big cam and ruins the joy of the 2ZZ.

Clutch wise, as they have said, you are being foolish. Clutches are not expensive or hard to replace when the flywheel is still in good shape. Fry the flywheel along with an overheating slipping clutch, and you will be looking at a much more substantial expendature.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have a lightweight flywheel and clutch kit on the way. Unfortunately they are for a mk1 mr2, so I might not be able to use the flywheel as the bolt circle is smaller, and the central alignment hole is also smaller. I thought my lathe could handle the flywheel, but the ring gear interferes a 'tiny' amount.. so I am hoping I can unblot the ring gear, stick it in the freezer to remove the interference fit, and get enough clearance to get it on the lathe, and then I can open up the inner circle easily. The bolt circle is just 8 holes drilled on a rotary table with an indexer. Going to a wider bolt circle is okay, no strength lost. The 3sgte guys do this for their stroker motors, and the v6 swap guys sometimes do this to use a 3sgte flywheel on the v6 instead of finding rare v6 flywheels or buying fidanza's. Back up plan if the ring gear clearance trick will not work is to just re-sell the flywheel and use the stock one..
Will also need to get it re-balanced at the local machine shop.
 

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1 - Its not really a "boost" issue, its a detonation / power issue with the stock rings and ring lands. They fail very quickly at 350whp, pretty regularly at 325. 300 has been done safely on a good tune, but they have failed below that point on a shitty tune with heavy detonation. Everything else will handle way more than the chassis will. Get yourself some VERY effective intercooling, a good fuel system and a properly sized turbo and a good tune will last you at 300.

2 - Don't really know, except I have never heard of the stocker lasting long with any kind of turbo on it. I would go with an ACT or TRD (they are made by RPS now) full face.
Hello, What injectors did you use? did you use stock fuel pump? turbokits.com says water/meth is good cooling no IC needed. is this true?
 

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turbokits.com says water/meth is good cooling no IC needed. is this true?
Absolutely with a good tune. Here is my 2ZZ with EFR and running EMS controlled progressive Methanol injection no intercooler.

20200407_170911.jpg

20200410_163535.jpg

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20200410_164417.jpg
 

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If you buy stronger clutch, the gearbox will pay it while breaking. Stock clutch smooth the stress point before sending it into the transmission.
The C64 of Toyota TS's cars is really a weak point. Lot of Lotus user have broked gearbox. In my case, it's my 2nd C64 gearbox in my stock internal 1ZZ engine.
 

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Do you do standing starts or track the car without a trans cooler? I did maybe two standing starts EVER in my lotus and never had issues in ~40k miles of very hard driving. The torque multiplication in 1st gear is really high and the C6X series is a very light transmission.
 

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Yes, drag race kill the transmission.
The 3rd an 4th pinions's of TS transmission are thinner than Celica 1zz and MR-S. that's why it tend to break earlyer on Lotus even with stock engine.
In France, some Exige, Exige S240/220 have broked transmissions or had synchros or pinions issues. Some on street use, others on track use.
 
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