Cams can be changed inside the car, yes. But any aftermarket cam will need valve springs and at that point you're removing the head
Can the camshaft on a 2zz be replaced in the car?
Hello,
I'm having some issues with my 2zz swapped MR2. The valves are making a lot of noise. I have removed the valve cover and inspected the camshaft and measured the clearances. There is a little bit of excessive wear on the #3 and #4 intake lobes of the camshaft. Honestly, it doesn't seem like enough to make that kind of noise, but it's definitely coming from the valve train. So what I'm asking is:
1. Could you help me diagnose the problem?
2. If I have to replace the camshaft, rocker arms or something up there, can the cams be removed without removing the engine? The front cover is pretty close to the side of the car.
To get the specifics on the problem you can watch this video: AG 036 MR2 Spyder valve train problem (Help!)
Thanks.
I'm having some issues with my 2zz swapped MR2. The valves are making a lot of noise. I have removed the valve cover and inspected the camshaft and measured the clearances. There is a little bit of excessive wear on the #3 and #4 intake lobes of the camshaft. Honestly, it doesn't seem like enough to make that kind of noise, but it's definitely coming from the valve train. So what I'm asking is:
1. Could you help me diagnose the problem?
2. If I have to replace the camshaft, rocker arms or something up there, can the cams be removed without removing the engine? The front cover is pretty close to the side of the car.
To get the specifics on the problem you can watch this video: AG 036 MR2 Spyder valve train problem (Help!)
Thanks.
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I don't know the 2zz, but on the 1zz you can do springs/seals with the head on. You can put compressed air in the cylinder or shove rope down the spark plug hole to prevent the valves from dropping.Cams can be changed inside the car, yes. But any aftermarket cam will need valve springs and at that point you're removing the head
Well I'm torn between just replacing the intake cam with a stock camshaft and upgrading to something like a stage 1 or 2 camshaft, if that's the problem. One way is cheaper and easier (which I'm leaning toward) and the other is obviously not. But it depends on the problem. Like I show in the video, the amount of wear on the intake cam, just doesn't seem like enough to cause noise at the level I'm hearing it.
I just watched the video and realized that the level of the noise may not be coming across. When I accelerate from a stop sign, the car sounds almost like an old VW Beatle. At steady state, it's smooth, but any acceleration will cause the ticking and it's very apparent. I just made my own custom exhaust, which looks and sounds awesome and this is totally ruining it.
I just watched the video and realized that the level of the noise may not be coming across. When I accelerate from a stop sign, the car sounds almost like an old VW Beatle. At steady state, it's smooth, but any acceleration will cause the ticking and it's very apparent. I just made my own custom exhaust, which looks and sounds awesome and this is totally ruining it.
It occurred to me later that the high speed lobe is making contact with the rocker at all times, not just in lift, it's just that the rocker is giving until it is locked at higher RPM. So it could be a bad rocker. Thoughts?
I watched your video. Sorry to tell you but you have cam wipe on #4 intake. It's not really bad yet but it will be if you keep driving it. To the point that it may break a rocker. Don't do that.It occurred to me later that the high speed lobe is making contact with the rocker at all times, not just in lift, it's just that the rocker is giving until it is locked at higher RPM. So it could be a bad rocker. Thoughts?
You will need to pull the cam and the VVL rockers. There are a thousand threads on www.lotustalk.com about this, the reasons why and how to prevent again. Bad luck man. I have an extra brand new cam sitting at my place in GA. But that is 5 hours away. So, best bet is Toyota or MWR. Both keep them in stock.
As they told you 4th cylinder lobe is pretty wiped, you need a new cam and rockers. I had the same issue with my 2zz, but i catched it before installing the engine so replacing it was easier. What were your intake valve lash measurements? When i took mine, they were on the tight side (still on spec though), they were around 0.06 to 0.09mm measuring between low speed lobe and roller. To get a 100% accurate reading you have to remove the cam, remove 4 of the 8 shims, leaving just 1 shim per rocker, install cam again, take measurements, write everything down (which size shim was on each valve as well, to calculate the new shims needed later), then remove cam again, remove current shims and install the others. measure again. sounds complicated but if you are organised it's just time consuming. you could skip all this removing/installing cam process if you have 90º feeler gauges to measure directly between the shim and rocker tip (idk the recommended lash using this method), but i didnt have that.
After reading a lot about all this cam wiping issue, i came to the conclusion that intake valve lash was set too tight from factory, so i ended up buying 8 shims to get a 0.20mm lash between roller and low speed lobe, which is 0.02mm looser than spec. My engine sounds ticky at idle, but i don't mind as it works flawlessly, we'll see how my cam looks like when i inspect it, for now i've done 4 trackdays and 10.000 street kilometers.
And yes, you can replace your cam in the car, here's a video showing it:
After reading a lot about all this cam wiping issue, i came to the conclusion that intake valve lash was set too tight from factory, so i ended up buying 8 shims to get a 0.20mm lash between roller and low speed lobe, which is 0.02mm looser than spec. My engine sounds ticky at idle, but i don't mind as it works flawlessly, we'll see how my cam looks like when i inspect it, for now i've done 4 trackdays and 10.000 street kilometers.
And yes, you can replace your cam in the car, here's a video showing it:
There are a dozen theories floating around. But this one I like the best. The quiet engines seem to be the ones that fail.... then get loud LOL. But mine has ticked since day one and it was on the wide side of the limits when I did a rebuild. This may also explain why people rebuild and are within spec and then see failures again. That plus the crap oiler design compounding whatever the actual issue is.My engine sounds ticky at idle
It is way past time for you to get the factory shop manual and read about the procedures for measuring and adjust valve lash and changing camshafts.It occurred to me later that the high speed lobe is making contact with the rocker at all times, not just in lift, it's just that the rocker is giving until it is locked at higher RPM. So it could be a bad rocker. Thoughts?
At the 1:20 mark on your video I heard the mechanical high pitched valve flutter noise that is out of sync. If so it is most likely associated with a bad exhaust manifold gasket or warped header flange. I know this sound all too well.
It could also be the gasket between the exhaust manifold and downpipe. Since you mentioned the noise was there since you bought it, it was probably never addressed.
Another sign is it sounds different when cold and when it is warmed up.
Before you tear into anything I would inspect the header gaskets.
Better yet I would replace it with this gasket as it can solve some some of the problematic flanges that are slightly warped.
TOYOTA Header/Exhaust Manifold Gasket
It could also be the gasket between the exhaust manifold and downpipe. Since you mentioned the noise was there since you bought it, it was probably never addressed.
Another sign is it sounds different when cold and when it is warmed up.
Before you tear into anything I would inspect the header gaskets.
Better yet I would replace it with this gasket as it can solve some some of the problematic flanges that are slightly warped.
TOYOTA Header/Exhaust Manifold Gasket
Could be vvt gear noise (this is typical of diesel beetle/tractor noise). I would just replace the cam gear before doing anything else. This does not solve the other issues, that would still need to be resolved.
I actually was going to say to check the exhaust manifold gasket before in the video you mentioned grooving on the cam love of #4. That's the cam with the least oil flow. But hey maybe you got lucky and caught the cam issue early. That may not be your sound but still needs to be addressed.
From your video I found something interesting. Look at the red arrow.
What kind of header manifold is this. If this is some kind of adaptation you could have a bad weld, crack or a flange that is not sealing. If so it can make the valve noises you are describing and what I am hearing in your video.
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What kind of header manifold is this. If this is some kind of adaptation you could have a bad weld, crack or a flange that is not sealing. If so it can make the valve noises you are describing and what I am hearing in your video.
Not sure where to start here. Yup, I just finished that exhaust system and yes, the welds suck, I'm very embarrassed about it and I'd prefer you don't trash me on it, as I have already done a great job of that myself. There is a long story about trying to get that done. I can also verify in fact that the flange is warped and not just a little bit, despite clamping it to a giant flat aluminum heat sink and welding each cylinder one at a time waiting for complete cool down in between.
This sound has existed while the exhaust system was stock and has now become worse, so I understand the coincidence here. But, I just don't believe that the sound I'm hearing is exhaust. It sounds distinctly like valve train. Despite the poor weld quality, I believe that exhaust is not leaking. I'm willing to smoke test it to be certain, but I just don't think that sound is the same. If you put your ear up near the valve cover you can hear them clacking around. Regrettably, it just doesn't come out over the video very well.
Do you still say exhaust?
This sound has existed while the exhaust system was stock and has now become worse, so I understand the coincidence here. But, I just don't believe that the sound I'm hearing is exhaust. It sounds distinctly like valve train. Despite the poor weld quality, I believe that exhaust is not leaking. I'm willing to smoke test it to be certain, but I just don't think that sound is the same. If you put your ear up near the valve cover you can hear them clacking around. Regrettably, it just doesn't come out over the video very well.
Do you still say exhaust?
If it were the exhaust, could that also account for the popping sound? Perhaps drawing air in?
Ok, I went out to the garage and checked it out again and the exhaust is definitely leaking at the manifold. I could actually place my fingers near the gap and feel the pulses. Still sounds like valves though.
Anyway, I guess I get/have to take another shot at this.
Thank you for the input. I'll report back whether this solved the problem once I have a leak free exhaust.
Anyway, I guess I get/have to take another shot at this.
Thank you for the input. I'll report back whether this solved the problem once I have a leak free exhaust.
It is the valves that you are hearing but it is coming through the leak of exhaust manifold. I have been though this a number of times not just with my car but form diagnosing others . One time I stopped the noise by tightening the bolts which doesn't always work but in this rare case it did.Ok, I went out to the garage and checked it out again and the exhaust is definitely leaking at the manifold. I could actually place my fingers near the gap and feel the pulses. Still sounds like valves though.
Anyway, I guess I get/have to take another shot at this.
Thank you for the input. I'll report back whether this solved the problem once I have a leak free exhaust.
It was not my intention to embarrass you on your welds. I just wanted to help solve your problem.
I am willing to bet your welds are better than mine. I made my own cat back exhaust using the cheapest flux core welder and a crash course from a YouTube video however the welds are strong and have held up well without leaks and that is all that matters to me even if they are ugly because I saved a fortune from someone who does pretty Tig welds that would laugh at my work.
Hard to know for sure. I did have to replace an intake cam because I chipped a timing tooth on the back of the cam. During this time I did have some louder than usual popping sounds from my exhaust.If it were the exhaust, could that also account for the popping sound? Perhaps drawing air in?
It mostly went away when I replaced the intake cam with a new one and I felt like some power was restored but what helped the most is a new set of ignition coils and spark plugs. Ignition coils degrade not just with usage but also with time if they are very old sending some unspent fuel into the exhaust.
I would invest in a new set of DENSO ignition coils not any kind of cheap aftermarket as they are known to be problematic.
Dev,
Oh I didn't mean that you were insulting my welds. I just felt that it might be coming from someone. I know I was beating myself up about it. I bought a bunch of practice material and also watched a bunch of videos, read a bunch of websites and consulted the manual, but I just couldn't dial it in and I wound up buying more practice material and more project material because I used it all up practicing. I spent a fortune in parts and shielding gas and like you, I had to resign myself to welds that didn't look good, but gave me something functional. I hadn't intended to ever let anyone see them. LOL. But I did a very good job on the tail pipe section where it comes out of the car. I had dual tips come out the back through the bumper into those little grill sections. It looks so cool and other than this noise issue, it sounds more throaty than I thought I could make it. Very happy with that.
Unfortunately for the header part, it isn't actually functional, so I called a place locally. They sound perfect for the job, except it sounds like the cost will be $1600 and about 6 months before they can get to it. So, I'm not sure about that. I'll take the car in tomorrow so they can look at it. Maybe when he sees how simple the design is, we can work something out.
If you look at the rest of my channel you will see that I documented my engine swap in detail. Most of the sensors, gaskets, and things like fuel injectors and coils are new. The coils are Toyota parts(Denso), but you know I noticed when I removed them to get to the valve cover, they don't fit very tight on the spark plugs. I'm used to hearing that little suction sound when I remove coils from plugs. Are yours like that?
Oh I didn't mean that you were insulting my welds. I just felt that it might be coming from someone. I know I was beating myself up about it. I bought a bunch of practice material and also watched a bunch of videos, read a bunch of websites and consulted the manual, but I just couldn't dial it in and I wound up buying more practice material and more project material because I used it all up practicing. I spent a fortune in parts and shielding gas and like you, I had to resign myself to welds that didn't look good, but gave me something functional. I hadn't intended to ever let anyone see them. LOL. But I did a very good job on the tail pipe section where it comes out of the car. I had dual tips come out the back through the bumper into those little grill sections. It looks so cool and other than this noise issue, it sounds more throaty than I thought I could make it. Very happy with that.
Unfortunately for the header part, it isn't actually functional, so I called a place locally. They sound perfect for the job, except it sounds like the cost will be $1600 and about 6 months before they can get to it. So, I'm not sure about that. I'll take the car in tomorrow so they can look at it. Maybe when he sees how simple the design is, we can work something out.
If you look at the rest of my channel you will see that I documented my engine swap in detail. Most of the sensors, gaskets, and things like fuel injectors and coils are new. The coils are Toyota parts(Denso), but you know I noticed when I removed them to get to the valve cover, they don't fit very tight on the spark plugs. I'm used to hearing that little suction sound when I remove coils from plugs. Are yours like that?
Regarding the suction sound when removing the plugs I know what you mean but I don’t remember, I do know that it feels tight. If yours feels loose and odd in some way it is a clue that maybe you have the wrong plugs. I would remove one of the plugs and measure it against a newly sourced good one. I would also look at the heat rating because if the plugs you have are on the cooler side it can cause exhaust popping and miss fires.Dev,
Oh I didn't mean that you were insulting my welds. I just felt that it might be coming from someone. I know I was beating myself up about it. I bought a bunch of practice material and also watched a bunch of videos, read a bunch of websites and consulted the manual, but I just couldn't dial it in and I wound up buying more practice material and more project material because I used it all up practicing. I spent a fortune in parts and shielding gas and like you, I had to resign myself to welds that didn't look good, but gave me something functional. I hadn't intended to ever let anyone see them. LOL. But I did a very good job on the tail pipe section where it comes out of the car. I had dual tips come out the back through the bumper into those little grill sections. It looks so cool and other than this noise issue, it sounds more throaty than I thought I could make it. Very happy with that.
Unfortunately for the header part, it isn't actually functional, so I called a place locally. They sound perfect for the job, except it sounds like the cost will be $1600 and about 6 months before they can get to it. So, I'm not sure about that. I'll take the car in tomorrow so they can look at it. Maybe when he sees how simple the design is, we can work something out.
If you look at the rest of my channel you will see that I documented my engine swap in detail. Most of the sensors, gaskets, and things like fuel injectors and coils are new. The coils are Toyota parts(Denso), but you know I noticed when I removed them to get to the valve cover, they don't fit very tight on the spark plugs. I'm used to hearing that little suction sound when I remove coils from plugs. Are yours like that?
Regarding the header why not purchase the PPE. The important thing about any header is the design that is mathematically worked out to time the exhaust pulses for correct scavenging otherwise you are hurting performance.
Also these performance headers are extensively tested and proven on a dyno to match their performance. It would cost a small fortune for someone else to custom make one and prove it.
Regarding exhaust I did the same thing and it gets a lot of looks and compliments . I would like to redo it with better welds someday but I’m happy with it.
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