[Two Step]

I understand where you guys are coming from. Our forum is very lax and not as strict as other forums. Which I actually think is a good thing. This leaves it up to us to police our own behavior. Our cars get very little aftermarket support so we are not going to see that many vendors coming in to offer products. I think MFactory was the most recent. Usually it takes one of our own members to persuade the vendors to offer products for the Spyder. Of course no one wants to buy a poor product but if we come across hostile it will only hurt our community. We should keep that in mind even if that vendors product is being advertised by one of our members.

 

[OTPAuto]

I can make an observation and post it just like any one else. And to me, it looks like a re-springed BC coil over or any of the such. I've asked for evidence that prove these are better than the other "Taiwanese" products they seem to be copying but have not seen it.


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Jason, exactly what info would you like? DGR is a company that sells coilovers for a pretty large number of vehicles. I can get you the dyno graphs they provide if that would appease you? Based on your temperament though, I could fly you to Taiwan to help assemble them, then back to Atlanta to see them dyno'd on the same dyno I had the M3 sets dyno'd on and it still wouldn't be enough. I don't own an MR2, so for me to buy a set for an MR2, dyno them, and then hope somebody buys them is a tough pill. I'm a repair/performance shop, doing that with every one of the hundreds of coilover offerings ANY manufacturer offers us is ludicrous. HeelToeHero is a local friend. He's driven/ridden in cars locally with DGR's. He posted our Group Buy here, trying to share what he's himself buying with other MR2 enthusiests. I simply created an account to answer questions.

 

[HeelToeHero]

I apologize if I broke rules, and it was me, not OTP. I thought the performance section was fitting because I'm not hosting the group buy, just letting people interested in performance know about good pricing on these if they're interested. Also with the lack of suspension options and posts in the performance mod section in general, I thought it would be ok. I personally never go to the Commercial Sales section but come here semi-frequently.

 

[Gts*Jason]

Jason, exactly what info would you like? DGR is a company that sells coilovers for a pretty large number of vehicles. I can get you the dyno graphs they provide if that would appease you? Based on your temperament though, I could fly you to Taiwan to help assemble them, then back to Atlanta to see them dyno'd on the same dyno I had the M3 sets dyno'd on and it still wouldn't be enough. I don't own an MR2, so for me to buy a set for an MR2, dyno them, and then hope somebody buys them is a tough pill. I'm a repair/performance shop, doing that with every one of the hundreds of coilover offerings ANY manufacturer offers us is ludicrous. HeelToeHero is a local friend. He's driven/ridden in cars locally with DGR's. He posted our Group Buy here, trying to share what he's himself buying with other MR2 enthusiests. I simply created an account to answer questions.

Are they using the same part number shock for the M3 kits as they are for the spyder?

I apologize if I broke rules, and it was me, not OTP. I thought the performance section was fitting because I'm not hosting the group buy, just letting people interested in performance know about good pricing on these if they're interested. Also with the lack of suspension options and posts in the performance mod section in general, I thought it would be ok. I personally never go to the Commercial Sales section but come here semi-frequently.

Going to move to commercial section since something is being sold

 

[OTPAuto]

Are they using the same part number shock for the M3 kits as they are for the spyder?

No, of course not.

 

[dev]

I don't see anything wrong with commenting on a product as long as it's not slander.
I would think it would only be to the benefit of the seller to dispell any misunderstanding to gain the confidence of people interested.
If the seller is trying to hide something then it is not to their benefit obviously.

On other forums, they will protect sellers even if they are called out because there is a financial incentive from sponsorship which is far worse.
I see nothing wrong with having a conversation about the product and any observations good or bad. Moderators are members that can act in both capacities.

 

[OTPAuto]

I don't see anything wrong with commenting on a product as long as it's not slander.
I would think it would only be to the benefit of the seller to dispell any misunderstanding to gain the confidence of people interested.
If the seller is trying to hide something then it is not to their benefit obviously.

On other forums, they will protect sellers even if they are called out because there is a financial incentive from sponsorship which is far worse.
I see nothing wrong with having a conversation about the product and any observations good or bad. Moderators are members that can act in both capacities.

Oh, I agree. I know of many forums where bad sellers are protected via sponsorship revenues. I'm all for a civil debate. I just felt GTS*Jasons comments were less than civil...

 

[silversprint]

Why those rates? They are stiffer than anything else out there. Is this a track only setup?

 

[OTPAuto]

Why those rates? They are stiffer than anything else out there. Is this a track only setup?

Thats what they're valved for. And no. The 'off the shelf' springrates are as follows:

99~UP MR2/MRS (ZZW30) Street: 7k/8k Track: 8.5k/10k
90~99 MR2(SW20L/21L) Street: 5k/8k Track: 7k/10k
86~89 MR2(AW11) Street: 5k/8k Track: 7k/10k


The 5k spring option on them surprises me, now that I look at it. According to their springrate chart they'd sent me awhile back of all available spring options, that size is not on it. I'll investigate that now as well.

 

[dev]

Oh, I agree. I know of many forums where bad sellers are protected via sponsorship revenues. I'm all for a civil debate. I just felt GTS*Jasons comments were less than civil...

That's a far stretch and unfair. If he didn't make that comment about the coil overs being BC like, others like myself would have because it's quite obvious. I have helped install three sets of BC coil overs and what you have to offer looks familiar. I'm sure there is a good reason for it which you have tried to explain but it's not Jason's fault for pointing it out. If these coil overs are a great product they will sell on their own merits as long as you point out the differences.

 

[liberty mkiii]

This tends to be a difficult crowd when it comes to coilovers for the spyder. I believe much of it stems from frustration that we do not have many "good" options for our cars. Most suspension products originating from Taiwan are entry level and low cost.
Most of us are willing to settle for that based on our budgets, however we want the product to be the best option for that given price range.

Given these are new to everyone and not reviewed yet by a member it will be a pain for you OTPAuto. I thank you for your patience with us thus far. I will be in the market for such a product late 2017 so I will be watching closely.

01' MR2 K20 swap, crazy mods to come

 

[OTPAuto]

That's a far stretch and unfair. If he didn't make that comment about the coil overs being BC like, others like myself would have because it's quite obvious. I have helped install three sets of BC coil overs and what you have to offer looks familiar. I'm sure there is a good reason for it which you have tried to explain but it's not Jason's fault for pointing it out. If these coil overs are a great product they will sell on their own merits as long as you point out the differences.

Nearly all of the Taiwanese coilovers 'look' about the same. BC. K-Sport. DGR. STD. Fortune (they started out made in Taiwan, and retain the same look). CX Racing. The list is a mile long. Not to mention all of the private labelled brands made by a variety of manufacturers for boutique performance shops wanting their own specialization, but without the expense of tooling up and starting their own machineshop and production company.

 

[Haloruler64]

Just a comment, it's a coilover with rebound damping adjustment rather than compression/rebound on one knob. So they're already a big step above BC coils. Not many budget coilovers offer that.

Now, there was one "vendor" that posted a group buy for coilovers and claimed the same thing. When I happened to ask if that was legit, they responded that it was a mistake and edited the original post. So I figure I'll ask OTP Auto: Can you confirm that DGR coilovers have rebound damping only adjustment on the knob?

And I guess another less relevant question, any connection (not business wise, but part wise) to Fortune Auto?

 

[dev]

Nearly all of the Taiwanese coilovers 'look' about the same. BC. K-Sport. DGR. STD. Fortune (they started out made in Taiwan, and retain the same look). CX Racing. The list is a mile long. Not to mention all of the private labelled brands made by a variety of manufacturers for boutique performance shops wanting their own specialization, but without the expense of tooling up and starting their own machineshop and production company.

So I take it that the strut body and the pillow ball/camber plates are manufactured from the same source but the internals are built specific for the brand that markets them.

 

[MerryFrankster]

Oh, I agree. I know of many forums where bad sellers are protected via sponsorship revenues. I'm all for a civil debate. I just felt GTS*Jasons comments were less than civil...

His comments were legitimate. He didn't call anybody names. He was entirely civil. Your honest answers to his questions are appreciated.

 

[silversprint]

Just a comment, it's a coilover with rebound damping adjustment rather than compression/rebound on one knob. So they're already a big step above BC coils. Not many budget coilovers offer that.

Now, there was one "vendor" that posted a group buy for coilovers and claimed the same thing. When I happened to ask if that was legit, they responded that it was a mistake and edited the original post. So I figure I'll ask OTP Auto: Can you confirm that DGR coilovers have rebound damping only adjustment on the knob?

And I guess another less relevant question, any connection (not business wise, but part wise) to Fortune Auto?

I know for a fact none of the DGR parts are made by BC. BC is probably the largest suspension company in Taiwan if not the world now. The only company that probably makes as many coilovers is probably HSD in Korea. BC has very good build quality for the price. They are the market giant now and everyone tries to aim for them.

All these monotubes coilovers regardless of who makes them has some bleed over with adjusters. It's usually too small to make a different. Some manufacturers accept the bleed over and say the adjuster affects compression, others just ignore it and say it's rebound only. Regardless its' usually so small that its' irrelevant. The valving being right is more important.

The reason you even need the adjuster is because of the linear piston. If you valve the shock to be comfortable, there is little low speed damping and you need super stiff springs to hold the car up in corners. If you add low speed damping then the high speed goes up too high and you break your teeth every time you go over a bump. This is why a properly damped digressive shock can use softer springs for increased grip.

The nonadjustable high speed compression damping on the spyder is very important, because the car is so light. If it's high regardless of how soft you make the springs the ride will not be comfortable. This is the first thing I look at on a single adjustable spyder shock dyno. I can tell what the ride is like or how much R&D was done without needing any other info.

If they try to use the same shock valving front and rear then that's just lazy or cost cutting. The valving should not be the same. Seen this from multiple companies.

 

[Haloruler64]

So realistically, how is the ride on a properly adjusted set of DGR coils? Softer or harsher than BC? Because BCs are extremely harsh.

 

[OTPAuto]

Just a comment, it's a coilover with rebound damping adjustment rather than compression/rebound on one knob. So they're already a big step above BC coils. Not many budget coilovers offer that.

Now, there was one "vendor" that posted a group buy for coilovers and claimed the same thing. When I happened to ask if that was legit, they responded that it was a mistake and edited the original post. So I figure I'll ask OTP Auto: Can you confirm that DGR coilovers have rebound damping only adjustment on the knob?

And I guess another less relevant question, any connection (not business wise, but part wise) to Fortune Auto?

As I've stated before, I have dyno graphs from an E36 M3 that I had dyno'd locally on Motion Control's own dyno. They're rebound-only. Yes, there's a bit of crosstalk into the compression forces when adjusting rebound - they're still an inexpensive damper, we have to remember the pricepoint we're at. And no, no connection at all with Fortune or any of the other similar looking coilovers.

So I take it that the strut body and the pillow ball/camber plates are manufactured from the same source but the internals are built specific for the brand that markets them.

Couldn't tell you who makes some of those individual parts IF they aren't made in-house (I doubt they manufacture spherical bearings, as an example), and I highly doubt they'd disclose that if asked.

 

[OTPAuto]

I know for a fact none of the DGR parts are made by BC. BC is probably the largest suspension company in Taiwan if not the world now. The only company that probably makes as many coilovers is probably HSD in Korea. BC has very good build quality for the price. They are the market giant now and everyone tries to aim for them.

All these monotubes coilovers regardless of who makes them has some bleed over with adjusters. It's usually too small to make a different. Some manufacturers accept the bleed over and say the adjuster affects compression, others just ignore it and say it's rebound only. Regardless its' usually so small that its' irrelevant. The valving being right is more important.

The reason you even need the adjuster is because of the linear piston. If you valve the shock to be comfortable, there is little low speed damping and you need super stiff springs to hold the car up in corners. If you add low speed damping then the high speed goes up too high and you break your teeth every time you go over a bump. This is why a properly damped digressive shock can use softer springs for increased grip.

The nonadjustable high speed compression damping on the spyder is very important, because the car is so light. If it's high regardless of how soft you make the springs the ride will not be comfortable. This is the first thing I look at on a single adjustable spyder shock dyno. I can tell what the ride is like or how much R&D was done without needing any other info.

If they try to use the same shock valving front and rear then that's just lazy or cost cutting. The valving should not be the same. Seen this from multiple companies.

Thanks for the significantly better explanation than I gave

So realistically, how is the ride on a properly adjusted set of DGR coils? Softer or harsher than BC? Because BCs are extremely harsh.

MUCH better. Again, I've not installed any to date on an MR2, but the BMW ones ride great. My roommates dual-duty car is a full weight E46 330 sedan. The car has a big front bar, no rear bar, and 14k/18k and rides amazingly well. Springrate means very little wrt ride quality, but if the springrates dont match the damper valving, it will ride like crap. BC's ride like crap because their valving is crap, and their adjusters barely do any adjusting.

 

[OTPAuto]

It's up to HeelToeHero of course, but since he's local I'm more than willing to facilitate getting his dampers on the same shock dyno for comparison data. However, the timing is going to be tight, and it's obviously not going to happen before the GB is over. The Group Buy was setup to coincide with the Santa Run HPDE event at Barber - place the orders so they ship by Dec 1, gives everybody just enough time to get them on the cars and sorted before Santa Run.