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Discussion Starter #1
This is my very first post on any forum ever so don't hate me if I messed up where to put it or something (I'm doing my best).... I just want to open a dialogue on the daily driving safety (no helmet) with the hard dog roll bar. I have seen on these forums and also miata forums (wife is a miata fan girl) about how whacking your noodle on a roll bar is a serious concern. I installed the single diagonal hard dog roll bar around 6 months ago and I'm struggling to see how getting your head any where close to hitting they bar is a stretch. The only possibility immediately obvious to me is if the passenger is reclined hard core and you get T boned on the driver's side. If that happens they might hit their head on the diagonal bar, so I put foam on it. The bar is a solid 6 or 7 inches from the back of the seats and even if I take my seat belt off and wiggle about violently I can't get my head near the bar. Is there somthing I'm missing, am I too short (5'9), are a bunch of people who have never even seen the bar in person just making gross assumptions, will I die. I dunno please help.
 

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I’m just under 5’9” and I don’t see how I could hit my head on it unless like you said t-boned while leaned back. I’ve spun at around 40-60 and my helmet didn’t even touch with no race seats www.youtube.com/travaggini . Maybe if you rolled it without a helmet you’d hit it.


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Discussion Starter #3
I’m just under 5’9” and I don’t see how I could hit my head on it unless like you said t-boned while leaned back. I’ve spun at around 40-60 and my helmet didn’t even touch with no race seats www.youtube.com/travaggini . Maybe if you rolled it without a helmet you’d hit it.


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So I'm not crazy! I remember looking into getting a roll bar and so I started reading the forums. I was completely put off on buying one for months because the things people where saying until I was sitting in the passenger seat of my wife's miata (it also has a hard dog roll bar). The passager seat isn't a race seat like the driver and my head was no where near the roll bar. After really taking a look at the pictures of the mr2s with them I theorized that people were just using knowledge about cages (which are super dangerous without a helmet). I'm super happy i pulled the trigger with it and I'm glad I wasn't talked out of getting one. I was just wondering if I had missed something. It wouldn't be surprising if I had lol.
 

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I've test fit my seats and cage and perhaps I am missing something but how is it that somebody from the forum in the past hit their head on their cage? My seats won't even recline or slide back far enough for it to be possible and I am 5ft 10.
I guess depending on the seat mounts, type of seat (narrow headrest area with no bolsters) and a really tall person it might be possible.
Aanything is possible but common sense should account for a great deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've test fit my seats and cage and perhaps I am missing something but how is it that somebody from the forum in the past hit their head on their cage? My seats won't even recline or slide back far enough for it to be possible and I am 5ft 10.
I guess depending on the seat mounts, type of seat (narrow headrest area with no bolsters) and a really tall person it might be possible.
Aanything is possible but common sense should account for a great deal.
I'm not even sure any one ever even hit their head in a spyder.They might have and I forgot I read it but I can't remember. I do know there where a ton of people saying "having a roll bar was more dangerous than not having one". I'm glad I didn't listen.
 

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I had a miata that I installed a hard dog bar in. My head was close to the bar. If I would have ever gotten rear ended, it would definitely have been a baseball bat to the back of my head. Remember you go backwards and upwards in a rear end collision. Seats flex, weird stuff happens... At any rate, the leather wrapped foam is a good idea (dont use a pool noodle, it's not high enough density to do anything under a hard hit)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I had a miata that I installed a hard dog bar in. My head was close to the bar. If I would have ever gotten rear ended, it would definitely have been a baseball bat to the back of my head. Remember you go backwards and upwards in a rear end collision. Seats flex, weird stuff happens... At any rate, the leather wrapped foam is a good idea (dont use a pool noodle, it's not high enough density to do anything under a hard hit)
Thank you so much for the input! My wife is a little over 5 feet tall so thankfully I dont have to worry about her whacking head on her bar. I didn't take into consideration the seat flexing and going up... BUT I will say some one of average hight (like 5,9ish) like me would have a pretty hard time hitting their head in mr2s with the hard dog. What kind of roll bar did you have in the miata? I know a few of the more intense hard dogs can come up pretty high and far forward. My wife has the double hoop cobra style ones with the diagonals for reference. They are pretty far back and I still dont think I could hit my noodle in a crash.

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I worried about this as well, however, I have the autopower bar so I can't compare exactly with your situation but I moved my head all around and can't see how I'd hit it with enough force to do any damage in an accident. I think you gotta judge it individually and by the car you have the roll bar in. In other words, it depends and what's safe for one person may not be safe for someone else.
 

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I have an autopower roll bar. I smacked my head on it at autocross, thankfully wearing a helmet.
It’s probably a good thing you had something to stop your head, to avoid the type of injury a hans device would protect against.

For this reason it really should be all or nothing with race car safety systems in a road car. When you remove one piece it becomes dangerous. Just my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It’s probably a good thing you had something to stop your head, to avoid the type of injury a hans device would protect against.

For this reason it really should be all or nothing with race car safety systems in a road car. When you remove one piece it becomes dangerous. Just my opinion.
In most cases I agree. Harnesses (without a cage) are a disaster waiting to happen. Taking out a steering wheel with air bag for some musty crome NRG without harness is stupid. The same CAN go for rollbars and cages. However some roll bars can be safe. (Depending on hight). Yeah if your headrest is right in front of or under a bar your going to have a bad time in an accident. I'm glad I'm not tall and I'm glad I don't listen to every one who makes a post on a forum though.
 

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There are posts on this very topic going back 10 to 12 years. If I recall, the windshield frame has proven itself sufficiently stout for protection on the street, and there were cited instances with pictures on one of the sites. Seantc's opinion is probably the consensus opinion among the long time members. You seem to be talking yourself into justifying the choice, which is fine as its a personal matter. Just don't expect others to go along with your choices.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Honestly im not trying to "justify my choice". I'm very pleased with my purchase. I'm just trying to provide information from someone with a few roll bars and a specific one made specifically made for our cars. Not just say the same things a few other people who have never owned one say based off anecdotal evidence. A lot of people on the previous post who had the bar said things that aligned with me. If one of the "long term members" would like to talk about the hard dog roll bar with a little more than I read on this website, that would be appreciated... I have stayed away from forums for the last 15 years because of people like yall and I think I will continue to keep my distance.
 

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... I didn't take into consideration the seat flexing and going up...

...it really should be all or nothing with race car safety systems in a road car. When you remove one piece it becomes dangerous...
It is not just the seat flexing. If you are in a real crash and you don't have a racing seat and a five point harness, your body is going to move around a lot. Checking clearances while seated doesn't tell you very much.

That makes sense to me also. But, really, it is a crap shoot. Racing equipment is developed through trial and error, and the errors are costly. Special equipment was developed because people crashed and killed themselves. It is in the form it is now because people crashed with it and lived to tell about it. If you change the formula, you are starting the process over again.
 

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Honestly im not trying to "justify my choice". I'm very pleased with my purchase. I'm just trying to provide information from someone with a few roll bars and a specific one made specifically made for our cars. Not just say the same things a few other people who have never owned one say based off anecdotal evidence. A lot of people on the previous post who had the bar said things that aligned with me. If one of the "long term members" would like to talk about the hard dog roll bar with a little more than I read on this website, that would be appreciated... I have stayed away from forums for the last 15 years because of people like yall and I think I will continue to keep my distance.

Sorry you took it that way, but that's your call. Adding a bar is a personal choice and as long as you are happy that's all that matters.
 

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There are actual guides to cage and roll bar building that makes you take specific measurements for a reason and the FIA even lays out guidelines depending on the type of racing being done. It has been a decade since my rally car but I do remember the measurements being based off of things like impact force, seat flex, etc.
I would say using a reclining seat with a bar would be a bad idea as the flex can be much more as well as the hinges in seats are known to fail in rear impacts.

I am going to be using a hard dog but mine is a track car that's being hauled to and from.
 
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