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For the KSwap, can't you guys in California get away with the TSX manifold (even for a k20)? It does not hit the subframe.
 

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It seems that we have it a bit easier in NY. Even though we have CA standards, as long as the OBD2 shows no codes you are OK. The shop gets a computerized message stating the the detected ECU is for the wrong vehicle, but it is not a show-stopper as long as the inspection shop is friendly.
 

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II. Vehicles originally equipped with OBD-II must receive an OBD-II certified engine and meet the following: 1. All emission system configurations must be in the original emission control system configuration as the donor vehicle, including, but not limited to, the transmission, evaporative system, exhaust, and intake
This applies for automatic transmissions, only. Manual transmissions are free and unrestricted according to the state smog ref who guided me. This can be confirmed by calling BAR. This means manual swaps can use any gearing or tranny. This was his info, reconfirm with BAR.

TSX manifold fits as I've test fitted it. But, it is not legal because it did not come as the original equipment. The entire stock engine must be used. Non-smog items may be swapped (adding remote oil filter or sensors, for example).
 

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i don't think it will in california. in not-california, maybe.
Ummm....maybe you misunderstood the question he was asking.

Will a 2ZZ engine run with a 1ZZ ECU. If yes, will it be able to run and complete all of the 1ZZ OBD Monitors?

Because in CA, if you want to smog a 2000 and up car. It only has to pass a visual inspection and then they plug into the OBD port to check for codes and that all monitors are complete.


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So will a 2zz run without codes on a 1zz ecu enough to pass the OBD2
YES.. as long as the ECU wires are swapped back.. or you used a swap harness and remove it for the 1ZZ ecu to run the 2ZZ engine..

I was using Curt's Swap Harness for some of my early testing.. later he needed it back, and I already has 'Network Central' behind the seat of my spyder for my Logging Hardware.. Not wanting to add to the Wire Complication, I cut open my 2ZZ ecu, and re-Pinned it to Plug into a 1ZZ Wire harness.. this way I could switch between ECU's and not worry about the wiring differences..

Cap
 

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This applies for automatic transmissions, only. Manual transmissions are free and unrestricted according to the state smog ref who guided me. This can be confirmed by calling BAR. This means manual swaps can use any gearing or tranny. This was his info, reconfirm with BAR.

TSX manifold fits as I've test fitted it. But, it is not legal because it did not come as the original equipment. The entire stock engine must be used. Non-smog items may be swapped (adding remote oil filter or sensors, for example).
Would it be legal for a 2.4 L swap? If you use the stock heat shield, I can't imagine how they would know it is not the OEM manifold. Of course it would meet the spirit of the law.
 

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YES.. as long as the ECU wires are swapped back.. or you used a swap harness and remove it for the 1ZZ ecu to run the 2ZZ engine..

I was using Curt's Swap Harness for some of my early testing.. later he needed it back, and I already has 'Network Central' behind the seat of my spyder for my Logging Hardware.. Not wanting to add to the Wire Complication, I cut open my 2ZZ ecu, and re-Pinned it to Plug into a 1ZZ Wire harness.. this way I could switch between ECU's and not worry about the wiring differences..

Cap
Thanks. You would also need the 3rd o2 sensor put back in to avoid a cell.

The TPS wires may not throw a CEL even if they are switched.
 

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Thanks. You would also need the 3rd o2 sensor put back in to avoid a cell.

The TPS wires may not throw a CEL even if they are switched.
The TPS wires do not need to be switched.. It's the 'Usual 2ZZ T-Bodies" that mount the TPS backwards from the Spyder TPS, the TPS wires are 'Reversed' on the 2ZZ T-Body to make them 'Proper' for the 1ZZ Wire Loom

Yes all three O2's need to be there.. Unless you want to do the PPE, Single O2 Wiring Conversion to make the ECU happy

You still have to check all your wiring

Cap
 

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Would it be legal for a 2.4 L swap? If you use the stock heat shield, I can't imagine how they would know it is not the OEM manifold. Of course it would meet the spirit of the law.
A 2.4 donor such as a tsx manual would require stock tsx engine including intake manifold, exhaust manifold, CARB legal intake tube, and same cat rules

According to what we discussed, I was informed that manual transmission means any gearing, any transmission from any manufacturer.

If it's an auto swap, the transmission has to be the same which came with the donor engine/vehicle.
 

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Ummm....maybe you misunderstood the question he was asking.

Will a 2ZZ engine run with a 1ZZ ECU. If yes, will it be able to run and complete all of the 1ZZ OBD Monitors?

Because in CA, if you want to smog a 2000 and up car. It only has to pass a visual inspection and then they plug into the OBD port to check for codes and that all monitors are complete.


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it can complete the obd monitors fine when wired up right, the obdII is the easiest part.
The main sticking point is that the visual inspection.

a smog tech is gonna at least need to visually check the evap, pcv, exhaust, intake, and cats. In checking those, the smog tech will need to confirm that it's using the factory parts or a CARB exempted part (catbacks are fine though. california doesn't care about that as long as it's not excessively loud). They don't have to check for functionality during visual, but they do have to check that all the emissions control parts are connected according to the oem config.

The 2zz doesn't have an EO number (because obv. it's an oem part) and has a pcv fittings on the valve cover in a different spot than the 1zz. there's a pretty significant risk that a smog tech will know is that there's only supposed to be 1 tube that goes to the visible left rear corner of the valve cover, not 2. they don't even need to know what a 2zz is.

After that, a note is added to the database about what caused your car to fail according to the smog station and you'll be referred to the bar ref. The bar runs its inspections on an appointment system so they know what cars are coming in and when. They will move refs around who know those cars well. From what i hear, there's a a ref that knows mk3 mr2's really well that's in norcal that can tell a 2zz from a 1zz at a glance, so if you go in without the proper swap stuff in accordance with the BAR rules, you're not gonna pass.

Shops that can be bribed eventually end up getting caught. The shop gets fined and removed from the STAR certification list, and every VIN that's got a current smog from that shop gets flagged to be re-smogged somewhere else. Sometimes, california BAR sends out bait cars that have minor details that these shops are supposed to catch. two 2zz swapped mk3's in my area had that happen to their last smog shop.

Basically, if you don't want to get into this kind of crap that can spiral out of control, and since you're already doing all this work anyways:

  • do the swap with the 2zz header and 2zz ecu from your model year or newer
  • notch the subframe and reinforce with steel plates welded on to box up the open cuts and a bit of additional reinforcement
  • measure the downstream length of the 2zz oem cat from the header flange (can be changed within +/- 12 inches)
  • measure the length from cat to the two o2 sensors (can be changed within +/- 1 inches)
  • cut the piping of the 2z oem cat pipe to get the oem cat
  • get a new cat pipe made (with the oem 2zz cat and o2 sensor bungs with oem pipe diameter) to fit so that you can bolt the mk3 catback to it (you have the above mentioned leeway for cat and o2 sensor placement, but don't get too close to the limits in case of measurement error)
  • plumb up the evap, the pcv, iac, etc. and anything else you need to make a 2zz ecu happy.
  • dot your i's, cross your t's, button the whole thing up and bar the thing.
  • get your bar sticker (stickers are VIN specific and registered in the BAR database)
  • smog stations respect the sticker (and the visual won't be as harsh) ---> your 2zz passes hassle free as long as you keep your emissions control equipment functioning properly. (you could at this point, even swap to a stock subframe member, high performance swap header, and swap midpipe done up to look oem and the normal smog techs won't bat an eye because of the sticker.)
 

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it can complete the obd monitors fine when wired up right, the obdII is the easiest part.
The main sticking point is that the visual inspection.

a smog tech is gonna at least need to visually check the evap, pcv, exhaust, intake, and cats. In checking those, the smog tech will need to confirm that it's using the factory parts or a CARB exempted part (catbacks are fine though. california doesn't care about that as long as it's not excessively loud). They don't have to check for functionality during visual, but they do have to check that all the emissions control parts are connected according to the oem config.

The 2zz doesn't have an EO number (because obv. it's an oem part) and has a pcv fittings on the valve cover in a different spot than the 1zz. there's a pretty significant risk that a smog tech will know is that there's only supposed to be 1 tube that goes to the visible left rear corner of the valve cover, not 2. they don't even need to know what a 2zz is.

After that, a note is added to the database about what caused your car to fail according to the smog station and you'll be referred to the bar ref. The bar runs its inspections on an appointment system so they know what cars are coming in and when. They will move refs around who know those cars well. From what i hear, there's a a ref that knows mk3 mr2's really well that's in norcal that can tell a 2zz from a 1zz at a glance, so if you go in without the proper swap stuff in accordance with the BAR rules, you're not gonna pass.

Shops that can be bribed eventually end up getting caught. The shop gets fined and removed from the STAR certification list, and every VIN that's got a current smog from that shop gets flagged to be re-smogged somewhere else. Sometimes, california BAR sends out bait cars that have minor details that these shops are supposed to catch. two 2zz swapped mk3's in my area had that happen to their last smog shop.

Basically, if you don't want to get into this kind of crap that can spiral out of control, and since you're already doing all this work anyways:

  • do the swap with the 2zz header and 2zz ecu from your model year or newer
  • notch the subframe and reinforce with steel plates welded on to box up the open cuts and a bit of additional reinforcement
  • measure the downstream length of the 2zz oem cat from the header flange (can be changed within +/- 12 inches)
  • measure the length from cat to the two o2 sensors (can be changed within +/- 6 inches)
  • cut the piping of the 2z oem cat pipe to get the oem cat
  • get a new cat pipe made (with the oem 2zz cat and o2 sensor bungs with oem pipe diameter) to fit so that you can bolt the mk3 catback to it (you have the above mentioned leeway for cat and o2 sensor placement, but don't get too close to the limits in case of measurement error)
  • plumb up the evap, the pcv, iac, etc. and anything else you need to make a 2zz ecu happy.
  • dot your i's, cross your t's, button the whole thing up and bar the thing.
  • get your bar sticker (stickers are VIN specific and registered in the BAR database)
  • smog stations respect the sticker (and the visual won't be as harsh) ---> your 2zz passes hassle free as long as you keep your emissions control equipment functioning properly. (you could at this point, even swap to a stock subframe member, high performance swap header, and swap midpipe done up to look oem and the normal smog techs won't bat an eye because of the sticker.)
We know all this.

You can put a 2zz engine with stock 1zz intake, 1zz header, with a 1zz plastic valve cover and a 1zz ecu 99% of smog tech won't know it's not a stock 1zz engine.

Many if us here have passed smog with a 2zz with a 2zz ecu because in the past the smog machine could not tell it was a 2zz ecu. If the smog machines can now tell then all we would need to do is install the oem 1zz ecu back in for smog.

I have not had a 2zz fail smog in the past.
 

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Problem with BAR with a 2zz is you can't use a JDM engine. USDM donors are high mileage. You also can't use s Celica donor. It's not worth spending $7k in donor parts for a $6k car for a 170hp 2zz.

If going BAR get the K20 donor.
 
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