MR2 SpyderChat banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I recently purchased a spyder I plan to do a 2zz swap on. It has the c66 transmission coupled to the stock 1zz according to the po. I considered this a plus but now I am doing some research there are a lot of people who don't recommend this gearbox for the 2zz and suggest the c60. What should I do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,294 Posts
I think the gearing is far too wide for the 2zz. Even my car is 2zz supercharged and I find I’m waiting to i wind it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,969 Posts
Not good. Its going to put the hurt on your 2ZZ so badly you are going to wish you had a 1ZZ.

Good news is there are people that love the idea of the Euro transmission so its probably easy to sell and break even with a C60.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Not good. Its going to put the hurt on your 2ZZ so badly you are going to wish you had a 1ZZ.

Good news is there are people that love the idea of the Euro transmission so its probably easy to sell and break even with a C60.
Would the c66 be worse than just the stock 5-speed? I have a 1zz mated to a c66 right now and want to do the swap. Trying to decide if it's worth running the c66/2zz for a while or not even worth installing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,969 Posts
Would the c66 be worse than just the stock 5-speed? I have a 1zz mated to a c66 right now and want to do the swap. Trying to decide if it's worth running the c66/2zz for a while or not even worth installing it.
I conversed with some owners in Europe and they wished they had our 5 speed transmission for the shorter ratios.

Those that want the Euro transmission want it because of lowering the rpms on the highway and for the LSD that they are probably never going to used but its nice for them to know that they have an LSD.

Certainly for the 2ZZ you want the shorter ratios that was formulated to keep the car in lift and it will not run out early because the engine has longer legs unlike the 1ZZ that is better suited for the US 5 speed.

I have driven a 2ZZ Spyder with the stock 5 speed, it felt slow and with the ratios of the Euro transmission its going to be a dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Would the c66 be worse than just the stock 5-speed? I have a 1zz mated to a c66 right now and want to do the swap. Trying to decide if it's worth running the c66/2zz for a while or not even worth installing it.
I conversed with some owners in Europe and they wished they had our 5 speed transmission for the shorter ratios.

Those that want the Euro transmission want it because of lowering the rpms on the highway and for the LSD that they are probably never going to used but its nice for them to know that they have an LSD.

Certainly for the 2ZZ you want the shorter ratios that was formulated to keep the car in lift and it will not run out early because the engine has longer legs unlike the 1ZZ that is better suited for the US 5 speed.

I have driven a 2ZZ Spyder with the stock 5 speed and felt slow and with the ratios of the Euro transmission its going to be a dog.
I was under the impression that the c66 was the same ratios as the 5-speed with just a 6th gear for low rpm cruising. It seems like that isn't the case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,074 Posts
A good reference and the various transmission combinations is on Wikipedia.

The C65 is the SMT 6 speed in the US is the US 5 speed with an overdrive 6th and the same 4.3 final drive as the 5 speed

The C66 is sometimes called the Euro 6 speed with a taller final drive at 3.9 and slightly different 3rd and 4th gears compared to the US 5 speed

The3 C65 and C66 both work well behind the 1ZZ

The C60 is typically found behind the 2ZZ and has a 4.5 final drive, which matches better with the higher RPM 2ZZ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,338 Posts
I was under the impression that the c66 was the same ratios as the 5-speed with just a 6th gear for low rpm cruising...
That is the C65 you are thinking of. That is the US SMT transmission. I have a converted 6 speed SMT and I like it very much. It has been said that 5th and 6th are too close together, but I find that 5th is ideal for suburban roads where you will be cruising in the range 40-50 mph. I suppose that if one lived in central Nevada, the opinion would be different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
I purposely bought a C-66 from Mike V because I didn't like the ridiculous RPM's while cruising on the freeway. I did away with the 5 spd SMT and converted the car to take the C-66. My situation will be different than most because I'm working on finishing my 2zz swap with a water to air intercooled Rotrex supercharger. I'm hoping for 330WHP+. Hopefully I won't have such an issue with the added torque but I understand the torque doesn't come on instantly. If you are autocrossing or drag racing I could see sticking with shorter gears for maximum performance. If you like to cruise on the freeway like I do, you might like the taller gears, better gas mileage and less engine noise due to 3,500 RPm's at 75 mph. Personally, I will welcome the lowered RPM's and if I give up a bit of performance potential... so be it.

If you really want something that hauls ass, sell the Spyder and get something with a V-8... lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,969 Posts
I purposely bought a C-66 from Mike V because I didn't like the ridiculous RPM's while cruising on the freeway. I did away with the 5 spd SMT and converted the car to take the C-66. My situation will be different than most because I'm working on finishing my 2zz swap with a water to air intercooled Rotrex supercharger. I'm hoping for 330WHP+. Hopefully I won't have such an issue with the added torque but I understand the torque doesn't come on instantly. If you are autocrossing or drag racing I could see sticking with shorter gears for maximum performance. If you like to cruise on the freeway like I do, you might like the taller gears, better gas mileage and less engine noise due to 3,500 RPm's at 75 mph. Personally, I will welcome the lowered RPM's and if I give up a bit of performance potential... so be it.

If you really want something that hauls ass, sell the Spyder and get something with a V-8... lol
There was a member her by the name of Curt that had a built 2zz Rotrex that I believe was putting down similar numbers.
At the time he felt that going with the Euro transmission could be a benefit because of the added torque and it seemed like a great plan on paper.
Unfortunately It did not pan out that way and I think he may have went back to the C60. He wasn't the only one there was a guy with a turbo 2ZZ and felt the same way so in total 3 people came to the same conclusion.

I would do a search for his build as you might be benefited by his knowledge. He really knew his stuff and built a nice Rotrex Spyder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
There was a member her by the name of Curt that had a built 2zz Rotrex that I believe was putting down similar numbers.
At the time he felt that going with the Euro transmission could be a benefit because of the added torque and it seemed like a great plan on paper.
Unfortunately It did not pan out that way and I think he may have went back to the C60. He wasn't the only one there was a guy with a turbo 2ZZ and felt the same way so in total 3 people came to the same conclusion.

I would do a search for his build as you might be benefited by his knowledge. He really knew his stuff and built a nice Rotrex Spyder.
Yes, I do remember reading what Curt said and you're right... he went back to shorter gearing. I'm hoping I don't dislike the C-66 as I haven't driven it yet. It will provide effortless cruising pleasure I'm sure... but if it's a dog, I may have to drop in a different R&P or and entirely different box. I just couldn't stand how short the stock 5 spd gearing was.

Let's hope I made the right decision. Maybe I'll like it and it will serve me well. I'll report back later on the matter when the car is up and running.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,969 Posts
Yes, I do remember reading what Curt said and you're right... he went back to shorter gearing. I'm hoping I don't dislike the C-66 as I haven't driven it yet. It will provide effortless cruising pleasure I'm sure... but if it's a dog, I may have to drop in a different R&P or and entirely different box. I just couldn't stand how short the stock 5 spd gearing was.

Let's hope I made the right decision. Maybe I'll like it and it will serve me well. I'll report back later on the matter when the car is up and running.
The C60 does just about everything right. You want quicker revs in second and third you got it, you want highway cruising you got that too.

There have been multiple opinions on mating the C60 and the 1ZZ. I remember reading a few posts by respectable members that said matting a C60 with the 1ZZ gave them a performance benefit. There are others that said it made them slower to 60 because of the shift.
Then there was the guy that got custom gearing that was a very short ratio five speed for the 1ZZ and said it made the car scream.

I personally like short ratio gearing because its fun but for others that want a more GT like drive the longer gear ratios will do I suppose but at that point you come to an impasse of why you bought a small light weight car in the first place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,294 Posts
I am actually planning to swap back to the c60 the fun factor is just not there with the long gear ratios. You don’t have that drop a gear for more power feel. Instead dropping a gear just changes your rpm by a thousand at most. The only nice thing about it is the crushing rpm on the highway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,969 Posts
I am actually planning to swap back to the c60 the fun factor is just not there with the long gear ratios. You don’t have that drop a gear for more power feel. Instead dropping a gear just changes your rpm by a thousand at most. The only nice thing about it is the crushing rpm on the highway.

The difference I felt between the 2ZZ with the C60 even with the shorter gear ratios is very different than the 1ZZ with its stock 5 speed transmission in a way that most would not expect even with the shorter gear ratios which would make you think you should be shifting more.

With a stock Spyder I feel like Im rowing though the gears not driving dangerously fast and that is because it runs out peak torque early prompting you to shift.

The 2ZZ has lift and longer legs makes me shift less allowing me to stay in gear longer. First to second catching lift and maxing out just before third and im going too fast for local roads that I have to shut down. If I do a third gear pull I should be arrested.
With the stock Spyder I can comfortably go into third and drive on.

The motor and the gearing pretty much go hand in hand and it makes sense the ratios the engineers chose are optimized for the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,129 Posts
Yes, I do remember reading what Curt said and you're right... he went back to shorter gearing. I'm hoping I don't dislike the C-66 as I haven't driven it yet. It will provide effortless cruising pleasure I'm sure... but if it's a dog, I may have to drop in a different R&P or and entirely different box. I just couldn't stand how short the stock 5 spd gearing was.

Let's hope I made the right decision. Maybe I'll like it and it will serve me well. I'll report back later on the matter when the car is up and running.
Sorry I made a post challenging the admins to ban me for badmouthing Curt again. On second thought I want to remain here to annoy and offend everybody. Ha ha hahah .

Mukhtasar Mufeed: If you have a peaky torque curve, no gearing will ever be right for your car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
i think you just need to drive it differently, you need to wind it out. but anyways I think that the ideal would be to do the 4.3 in a c60 trans but that is my opinion
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,294 Posts
i think you just need to drive it differently, you need to wind it out. but anyways I think that the ideal would be to do the 4.3 in a c60 trans but that is my opinion
The best transmission for the c60 is stock with a different sixth gear. But since the only alternative to the sixth gear for now is either the .815 or the super rare c161 .683 which is only good for a drop of 200ish rpm from the .725. The C66 even with my supercharger just feels like a dog for the first two gears. It’s quick, don’t get me wrong but it feels drawn out. Just watch my dyno video where it looks like I’m reving to 20k rpm on the pull.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,522 Posts
When I had my 2ZZ + C60, I put on taller rear tires (4%), which made the speedo read correctly. I thought that gearing was pretty good, plenty of grunt and 5th/6th decent for cruising. 1st gear would easily be spinning the tires in the rain.

The Euro transmission would be great if you travelled a lot of highway miles. Obviously you lose some acceleration in 1st, but there are plenty of slower cars out there.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
About this Discussion
17 Replies
9 Participants
serialk11r
MR2 SpyderChat
SpyderChat Forum is a community for Toyota MR2 Spyder Enthusiasts to discuss specs, reliability and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top