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Video is kinda cheesy, but what a beautiful piece of engineering.
I'm really starting to love these cars
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Have you seen the vid of CEO Akio Toyoda sliding it around dirt and snow?
And here's a great documentary of the BRZ engineers/designers.
And here's a great documentary of the BRZ engineers/designers.
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Well I have always loved the JGTC and superGT cars, but I love that people are using the BRZ/FRS platform for so many different types of motorsports. Subaru designed a JGTC car from it, Toyota Developed a rally car from it, people are drifting them, using them for auto-cross, etc.. All this buzz makes me want to drive one to see what all the fuss is about.
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Yes, but are they "Proud of Boxter?"
Kinda reminds me of this old clip. Skip to the 1:05 minute mark.
All I'm saying is the JGTC car has as much in common with the BRZ/FRS as a Nascar has in common with a camry.
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I realize that. I was speaking more aesthetically and the fact that people are using the platform for many different types of motorsports. I just want to drive one!
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Drive one... why stop there? Watch this review and consider Chris Harris' advice at the very end. :icon_wink:
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There are a lot of Spyders for sale right now. I know that it is spring and it is normal for the number to go up with the warm weather. However, I think there are a lot of Spyder owners that see the FR-S as a solid replacement for their aging sports cars and they are selling their cars to make the move.
I have decided to stay with my MR2 but I really hope that the FR-S/BRZ hit it big. With the demise of the RX8 and the S2000 there was really a need for a new sports car to fill the void. Plus it may reinvigorate the aftermarket. Personally, I can't wait to see them on the street and to drive one myself. I have seen them up close and although I believe they are overpriced a bit, they appear to be a well engineered and put together machine.
I have decided to stay with my MR2 but I really hope that the FR-S/BRZ hit it big. With the demise of the RX8 and the S2000 there was really a need for a new sports car to fill the void. Plus it may reinvigorate the aftermarket. Personally, I can't wait to see them on the street and to drive one myself. I have seen them up close and although I believe they are overpriced a bit, they appear to be a well engineered and put together machine.
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It's 6,000 units per year. The Spyder sold at 5,000 units per year. No one is going to have trouble finding a BRZ.
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Yeah I noticed more spyderchatters have been popping up on ft86club. There's also a thread on s2ki with members anticipating this car. Several S2K, Miata, RX-8, Supra, Evo, and WRX owners are selling their cars for the FR-S/BRZ. And a few Exige owners, a few GT-R owners, and a Laguna Seca Boss owner want this car added to their stable. You'd figure there's something special about this car with a roll call like that.
I have to disagree on it not being worth it. The Spyder was $25k in 2000 and FR-S is $25k now. With inflation, the Spyder would be $33k today. Or with "deflation" the FR-S would be $18.9k in 2000. For that lower price, you're paying for significantly more engineering and development invested in this car compared to the MR-S. It was possible because of the collab (Subaru + Toyota). "1 + 1 = 3" is their catch phrase. And another: "Built by passion, not by committee." The MR-S being more part of the latter. But I do think the FR-S/MR-S have enough essential similarities to not justify a new purchase if you already own a Spyder.
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I should clarify my statement that I feel the car is overpriced by saying that I think it is overpriced in these difficult economic times. Subaru/Toyota originally targetted the cat at "just over' 20K or "low 20K". They also said that their target demographic was "recent college graduates". Three things that were completely out of their control have happened since they first started planning the car.
1. World recession
2. Devaluing of the dollar versus the yen
3. Most college graduates now face student loan repayments in the tens to hundreds of thousand dollars and a less than optimum job market which in some cases pays less for their services than it did 10 years ago.
The car is designed to be fairly light and therefore is very minimalistic to save weight. American are used to well equipped vehicles even when buying a 20K or lower car. For the average American the FR-S/BRZ will be a hard sell. Outside the enthusiast community there is no buzz about this car. In fact, most people do not even know about it. I attended two national car shows to see it and there were no crowfd surrounding the vehicle like there were other (IMO) more mundane cars.
If I did not already own a Spyder then I would buy one of these in a heartbeat. But then I would have to spend another 2-3K just to mod it to where I would want it to be (lowered, wheels, tires, TRD ducktail spoiler). At 25K+ that does not make sense to me at this time. Maybe, in a couple years I will grab a used one to replace the MR2.
I know that if you compare the MSRP of the 2000 MR-2 Spyder and the 2013 FR-S Then the Scion looks like a bargain. But those were different times back then. The mindset of the car buyer has changed. But just for the record I thought the 2000 MR-2 Spyder was obscenely over priced the summer of 2000.
1. World recession
2. Devaluing of the dollar versus the yen
3. Most college graduates now face student loan repayments in the tens to hundreds of thousand dollars and a less than optimum job market which in some cases pays less for their services than it did 10 years ago.
The car is designed to be fairly light and therefore is very minimalistic to save weight. American are used to well equipped vehicles even when buying a 20K or lower car. For the average American the FR-S/BRZ will be a hard sell. Outside the enthusiast community there is no buzz about this car. In fact, most people do not even know about it. I attended two national car shows to see it and there were no crowfd surrounding the vehicle like there were other (IMO) more mundane cars.
If I did not already own a Spyder then I would buy one of these in a heartbeat. But then I would have to spend another 2-3K just to mod it to where I would want it to be (lowered, wheels, tires, TRD ducktail spoiler). At 25K+ that does not make sense to me at this time. Maybe, in a couple years I will grab a used one to replace the MR2.
I know that if you compare the MSRP of the 2000 MR-2 Spyder and the 2013 FR-S Then the Scion looks like a bargain. But those were different times back then. The mindset of the car buyer has changed. But just for the record I thought the 2000 MR-2 Spyder was obscenely over priced the summer of 2000.
25k? it is selling at 144,000usd$ in Singapore and people are rushing to get one.
imo, my spyder is good enough.
I disagree wit your assessment here, forgetting the spyder, and all used car bargins out there and look at where it stands in the marketplace of new cars. there aren't sub 20K cars out there that are really nice cars. the price range isn't what it was 10 years ago. 10 years ago you could buy a car for around 20K and expect to get a decent sized car with options. Now, a Honda Civic EX costs over $20K. Loaded up Ford Focus, or Mazda 3 can be pushing $24K. Tying into your comment about the yen, when the USD is devalued compared to the yen, that makes these cars more expensive, ie: if they were planning on 22K and the yen devalued, it will come in at $25K now.
tough times student loan debt, etc, don't play into the equation as to how much it costs to build a car, especially when price of materials have gone up over the past decade. If you're trying to take a car that is a class or two above economy cars in the materials, technology and engineering used, and stuff it into an economy price point, the cost cutting involved won't give you a car that you want anymore.
The answer to that is, if times are tough for a person, don't consume, or consume or buy a car at lower price point or used. really if a college grad is doing well, 22K vs 25K isn't much of a difference over 5 years. If you're spending half your paycheck on the car and the extra 3k is making you feel more pain, you shouldn't have bought a 20K car, you don't make enough money.
Its an exciting car. I'm afraid it won't live up to the hype and end up just being a niche player, and once you get past the novelty that a car maker is making a rear driver that can drift, that it really is just going to be another 240SX with a taste of Toyota Celica.
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Gazoo Racing ready for the ‘ring
6 April 2012
For the 6th time, Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC) will be going back and participating in the 40th ADAC 24-hr of Nürburgring scheduled from May 17th to the 20th.
GAZOO Racing team have prepared 3 GAZOO Racing cars shown sporting the new team livery.
The 500HP GAZOO Racing Lexus LF-A will be racing in the Division 1 SP8 category.
It will be driven by Takayuki Kinoshita, Akira Iida, and Juichi Wakisaka
And the two 200 hp GAZOO Racing 86 will be racing in the Division 1 SP3.
The first 86 will be driven by Masahiko Kageyama, Yoshinobu Katsumata and Kumi Sato. The 2nd 86 car will be driven by Hiroaki Ishiura, Kazuya Oshima, Takuto Iguchi and Takagi Real.
And just like in previous years, the driver and crew will be a combination of Professional Toyota racing drivers and employees of Toyota Motor Corporation, in order to nurture human resources within the company.
For 2012, the slogan “I Love Cars!” will be used for GAZOO activities to encourage car enthusiasts to connect with each other through motor sports and at various events.
More photos of the GAZOO Racing 86 rally car HERE.
Source: http://jonsibal.com/blog/2012/04/gazoo-racing-ready-for-the-ring/
6 April 2012
For the 6th time, Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC) will be going back and participating in the 40th ADAC 24-hr of Nürburgring scheduled from May 17th to the 20th.
GAZOO Racing team have prepared 3 GAZOO Racing cars shown sporting the new team livery.
The 500HP GAZOO Racing Lexus LF-A will be racing in the Division 1 SP8 category.
It will be driven by Takayuki Kinoshita, Akira Iida, and Juichi Wakisaka
And the two 200 hp GAZOO Racing 86 will be racing in the Division 1 SP3.
The first 86 will be driven by Masahiko Kageyama, Yoshinobu Katsumata and Kumi Sato. The 2nd 86 car will be driven by Hiroaki Ishiura, Kazuya Oshima, Takuto Iguchi and Takagi Real.
And just like in previous years, the driver and crew will be a combination of Professional Toyota racing drivers and employees of Toyota Motor Corporation, in order to nurture human resources within the company.
For 2012, the slogan “I Love Cars!” will be used for GAZOO activities to encourage car enthusiasts to connect with each other through motor sports and at various events.
GAZOO RACING PRESS RELEASE:
Toyota City, Japan, April 6, 2012—Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC) today announced its 2012 GAZOO activity plans, which are aimed at broadening the appeal of car racing and fostering more car enthusiasts. To successfully reach and support a new generation of car enthusiasts around the world, TMC is striving to make ever-better cars that satisfy drivers and promote the joy of cars in ways that transcend the role of a typical car manufacturer.
As part of initiatives to develop ever-better cars, the GAZOO Racing team has been competing in the 24 Hours Nürburgring endurance race since 2007 and has launched “GAZOO Racing tuned by MN”1 (GRMN), “G Sports”2(G’s) and other models to give car enthusiasts a taste of the thrill of racing and to help develop human resources capable of “automotive seasoning”.
To promote the enjoyment of cars, TMC has hosted various events across Japan, such as GAZOO Racing “Waku Doki” circuit events, which give drivers with no racing experience an easy opportunity to safely drive their car on a racetrack.
This year, TMC will use its “86″ sports car to promote the allure of cars and foster new ranks of car enthusiasts by entering the vehicle together with the Lexus “LFA” in the 24 Hours Nürburgring endurance race held in Germany from May 17 to 20. Scenes from the race will also be webcast. To promote grass-roots motor sports in Japan, TMC will also sponsor teams competing with the 86 in the Super Taikyu Endurance Series and All-Japan Rally Championship, both of which serve as goals for amateur drivers aspiring to the next level of racing.
For 2012, the slogan “I Love Cars!” will be used for GAZOO activities to encourage car enthusiasts to connect with each other through motor sports and at various events.
In addition to the Nurburgring race cars, they also will be racing their 86 Rally car next week in the Japan Rally Championship.Toyota City, Japan, April 6, 2012—Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC) today announced its 2012 GAZOO activity plans, which are aimed at broadening the appeal of car racing and fostering more car enthusiasts. To successfully reach and support a new generation of car enthusiasts around the world, TMC is striving to make ever-better cars that satisfy drivers and promote the joy of cars in ways that transcend the role of a typical car manufacturer.
As part of initiatives to develop ever-better cars, the GAZOO Racing team has been competing in the 24 Hours Nürburgring endurance race since 2007 and has launched “GAZOO Racing tuned by MN”1 (GRMN), “G Sports”2(G’s) and other models to give car enthusiasts a taste of the thrill of racing and to help develop human resources capable of “automotive seasoning”.
To promote the enjoyment of cars, TMC has hosted various events across Japan, such as GAZOO Racing “Waku Doki” circuit events, which give drivers with no racing experience an easy opportunity to safely drive their car on a racetrack.
This year, TMC will use its “86″ sports car to promote the allure of cars and foster new ranks of car enthusiasts by entering the vehicle together with the Lexus “LFA” in the 24 Hours Nürburgring endurance race held in Germany from May 17 to 20. Scenes from the race will also be webcast. To promote grass-roots motor sports in Japan, TMC will also sponsor teams competing with the 86 in the Super Taikyu Endurance Series and All-Japan Rally Championship, both of which serve as goals for amateur drivers aspiring to the next level of racing.
For 2012, the slogan “I Love Cars!” will be used for GAZOO activities to encourage car enthusiasts to connect with each other through motor sports and at various events.
More photos of the GAZOO Racing 86 rally car HERE.
Source: http://jonsibal.com/blog/2012/04/gazoo-racing-ready-for-the-ring/
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Many don't know the extent of the tremendous effort Toyota put in making sure this car would not become a passing fad. So much as to fly their engineers from Japan out to Southern California way back in 2008 to meet with some grassroots enthusiasts, not to study the technical aspects, but to study the culture of what makes a car iconic.
Moto-P founder of Club4AG:
"Hello everyone, I am blessed with an opportunity to meet with one of the chief design engineers at Toyota's Design Facilities in Japan, responsible for the realization and return of a new Compact Sports car to carry the flag dropped by AE86's, Celica and MR2...and many before it.
This was suggested by a senior official at Toyota's R&D (name withheld) who I have met on a few occasions, and the principal designer, that once had overseen the development of the original AE86, AW11...
His latest products were in a different channel, most notably the 2nd gen Prius. His passion and understanding of cars in all genres is a blessing as he is now the lead product manager, who is currently training and educating the future designers at Toyota in Japan.
He himself has a very broad understanding of car culture as a middle-aged fanatic…an owner of various cars and motorcycle, from Beetles to Ducati in his private collection outside of the duties of Toyota.
These younger talents, who he is responsible to educate, are on visits to various places now, looking for clues. Their project, whether it will become a product or not, is to recreate something of a passion for the common man, a compact sports car.
This is not a request for a specific design or exercise in the actual blueprinting and performance capability. Toyota feels they are very adept at that already, and I agree.
Still they'd like to know what kind of cars we want, and what drives us to maintain our cars from the past.
What this mission now entails is the education of the young engineers about the "culture" of cars. Exactly, in words...it is a study to understand what makes a cultural phenomenon.
AE86's and MR2's have a very unique following, as does GT-R's and Lancers FTO's...
We need to educate them as well as ourselves, of what makes a Mustang so unique in our culture? What makes Club4AG a 20,000 strong website? What makes Porsche sell every single one of their $120,000 Model 911’s and get back-ordered when others have trouble selling similar cars at half that price? Many of us know that this isn’t about specifications or numbers, but a cultural phenomenon and various forms of intrinsic value.
Anyway, I will start this thread so that you, as Club4AG members and also as automotive enthusiasts, can voice your opinions. Wishes you have for the Compact Sports car of Toyota. What can drive them and their creations to something of a cultural icon.
These responses here, will likely go a long way in shaping what is to come for us. So please DO reply to this thread…
I will print out and distribute to them at the meeting, copy of this thread and that will also help me express my thoughts collectively with views of all of us at Club4AG.
PS: Please keep these polite and concise. Check spelling and grammar to the best of your abilities. Also, I will delete or omit, edit any insults, anger or otherwise inappropriate wording without notice. But I'd rather not as much as possible so please do your part.
This will reflect who WE are, and HOW Toyota’s officials and engineers will receive us, today and in the future.
I’m having a meeting discreetly with them at their request, on a date soon after the 20th of February 2008. (so this is all due by 20th of February)
Thank you for your help…"
Source: http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=20897
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578 Posts
You're absolutely right. That's all perfectly true, but not important. The FR-S/BRZ isn't meant to be "basic transportation", and isn't targeted at the average buyer, or low-rent NCG's.
Both Subaru and Toyota/Scion already have a complete line-up of cars in the econo-compact segment. In Toyota's case, pretty much the entire Scion range, plus the Yaris and all the various trim lines of the Crayola have that market segment well covered. Why build yet another car in the segment to cannibalize sales of the existing, and very popular models?
There's plenty of buzz in the enthusiast community, because that's the market segment the car was built for, and the segment where the makers are spending their marketing dollars. The car is intended to compete with the Miata, Nissan Z-car, and even low-end Boxster shoppers; not with the Corolla.
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