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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Last Update: 3/12/2014

"Getting closer and closer, Thanks all who are helping make this a more managable task for others"
Mounts: Solved
Shifting Mechanism: Solved
Axles: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Wiring: Researching, Updated 3/12/2014
Radiator Hoses: Solved
Heater Hoses: Solved
A/C: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Throttle Cable: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Fuel System: Solved
Exhaust System: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Anti Lock Brakes: Solved
Power Steering: Solved


General Info: Always Read First...!
Well, I have been gone for a long time and will try to keep this update. Sorry about the delay as I am in a transition period and cant work on the kswap.
Also some really big information the innovative mounts put the engine so far forward that ony the PRB intake manifold off of a RSX type S will fit. BottledFedMR2 has confirmed this and its been verifed. So anything else will require the firewall to be cut or the manifold to be shortened. This sucks but at the same time its nice to have the engine weight as far forward as possible as it puts it more centered.

I will have CONFIRMED next to everything I know for 100% is correct information.

Mounts: CONFIRMED
Recommends 75 was told by innovative that its the same as a 65a poly used by
other companies. Theirs is pure poly so 65a could sag over time.
http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=90551

Shifting Mechanism: CONFIRMED
Use the Factory MR2 cables and this bracket will make them interface with no other mods.
http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=50507
**Note: 2006+ Civic SI transmission will require the shift "Arms" off of a RSX type S transmission. You will then be able to
hook up the innovative shift Mechanism as it would be on a normal RSX type s Transmission.


Axles: CONFIRMED
Axles can be ordered through Drive Shaft Shop they now have part numbers on file though they are not on their website.
Part Number: RA9040x2 and RA9041X2

Wiring:
There is much debate about the wiring so far its every man for him self. I haven't actually started the physical wiring so I can't confirm anything or have a proven design. There a few that have completed their swaps and have them running and driving but they all sort of do wiring different. Monkey wrench racing is working on a full swap kit and will be selling the parts all seperate. I talked to them and they will be offering a wiring solution. Right now this is known for a fact!
If you want the car to fully function like a stock spyder you will need to shotgun the ecu's (Factory Toyota ECU and Honda ECU) if you don't care and want to replace your cluster than you can run a straight honda ecu but don't expect it to be very easy and you will need to know wiring to do it. You will also find it a lot harder to get the A/C running correctly with out redesigning the whole A/C wiring system.

Now if you just run the honda ecu by its self and keep your factory cluster you will lose your TEMP gauge and a few other idiot lights.


Old Info 3/12/2014
"
ABS:
I have found in theory that the ABS is almost completely independent of the engine control unit there is one wire going to the ECU and from talks with people its a input to tell ecu that ABS is active.

P/S:
The P/S system isn't to much of an issue in my eyes as it will keep running if you don't give it any signal from ecu. So at the basic level you have P/S no matter what. Now if you want to operate factory style then you need to configure Kpro to see the signal from the pump to IDLE UP on current draw which is PIN E3-25. There is also a pin on the ecu for turning the pump on and off while the engine is running/off. This pin is E3-19 on the ECU. From what I understand if the Power Steering ECU doesn't see any input on this pin it will just stay on all the time with the car in Acc/ON postion. As for any speed varience to Pump pressure adjustments this is all done between the P/S ecu and the ABS ecu (as the ABS ecu supplies the speed signal).

A/C:
I am working with innovative and when I start my swap will be using a prototype A/C adapter plate. You will want to keep your 1zz compressor as it will be the easiest by far to adapt to work. The K-series compressors are bigger and right now the 1zz one will barely fit.
I will be running wiring straight to the Hvac controls so that I can bypass the Toyota multiplex system and in essence just hard wiring the functions like Honda has in its cars all the way up to 2002. I will be recreating the same system they used in the earlier model civics that did not require any type of digital electronics. At the back of the Toyota Hvac controls the A/C switch comes out as a analog +12 or Grounded signal goes to the combo meter where it is processed and sent to the ecu on multiplex. I will just be wiring straight to this output on the Hvac control and cutting the meter and associated multiplex functions out of the circuit. I will then create a patch harness for the A/C compressor that contains the High/Low switch relays to cut the clutch and also figure out a way to wire in a freeze out switch into this same harness.


Unless I am missing something and by all means correct me. I see that if you completely remove the factory toyota ECU the only things that will not work are the A/C, Temp gauge, Some idiot lights and that is it. Everything else can be wire/jumped to function like normal.

The Temp gauge is on multiplex along with some of the idiot lights and A/C. You could make these work using the factory ECU as a multiplex conversion box and feed it the K-swaps sensor signals and hope they are in the same range as factory toyota's, or hook up factory toyota sensors in addition to the honda ones on the engine. IE: two oil pressure switches, two temp sensors ETC...

My goal is to make it as streamline and simple as possible (Wiring/Electronics). That is why I want the Toyota Ecu to be completely gone and all functions controlled by the Honda ECU.

Over all I am getting more and more done day by day and hope to start buying parts soon. I wanted to figure out most of the wiring before I even took the first bolt off the car. I'm hoping to have some of the conversion harness already made before I even start working on the car.
"




Throttle Cable:
Was informed that if you buy a Cruise Control delete it will allow the factory cable to bolt in no major mods needed. Getting verification but should be for a 00-04 RSX.


Radiator Hoses: CONFIRMED
He also said that the K-series and the 2zz are very similar in where all the hoses route. Since this being true He has confirmed for fact that the kswap in the lotus all the hoses fit up 99% perfect.
He said cutting one hose 2 inches is all that is required on the lotus. Since the engine is what determines the placement of hoses then the spyder should be no different then whats required for a 2zz swap.

Heater Hoses: CONFIRMED
Read Radiator Hoses Same applies.

A/C System:
Again BottledFedMR2 is the guy to see, he is working on bringing a A/C bracket to production. He is close to having it ready and I myself will be buying one.
It will use the 1zz compressor, he says it will be a little lower than he would like but it doesn't seem to be a big issue.


"
Tim said they are in the works to make a bracket for the Lotus with Kswap. So He says he doesn't see why the spyder wouldn't be able to use it. Again like the throttle cable he would need someone to test fit it and confirm or send it back to have it modified till they get it right.
But it is doable and not a big issue. The lotus has issues with A/C line clearance and he said that is one of the problems they are working on. When I asked him of the lotus and spyder have very similar bay lay outs I didn't know for sure but he said the way the firewall's are the spyder might actually have more room for the lines. Like everything though he can't say for sure.


Exhaust System: CONFIRMED
PPE makes a Header now for MR-2 Spyder with Kswap and is also available through MWR.
Collector size is 2.5" and the over all header is longer than stock one so will stick out further than factory.
Still waiting to get info on if you can use a down pipe to make it line up with the rest of the factory system.

Fuel System: CONFIRMED
You will need to run a return of some sort. You will need to also get a fuel regulator. I am still a little iffy on this from a basic swap standpoint because honda uses a returnless system factory so you might not need to do this if your just going to oem performance.

Extra Notes:
I will update this a little more in a few days. I wanted to get something new on here as I have been away from the forums for awhile and people might like to see a summary of the events going on with the Kswap. The main thing that is missing is wiring. Once there is a agreed upon design that everyone things that works and is simple as it can be will the swap get easy enough for everyone.
 

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This is what I have.



from rywire (asking about swap harness)

"Hi, I would need a mr2 engine harness sent in to complete the job."
"About 400 should cover it. The ecu will still have obd2 functionality. I do not know about the dash, as long as its not can it should work. Worst case a resistor will need to be added for tach signal."

from ppeengineering (asking about header)

"Hi Vasilis,
We have been talking with Brandon at Mitch’s auto parts about doing one, but we haven’t gotten the car yet so I can’t tell you when they will be available or pricing."

from hybrid-racing (asking about mounts, swap harness, shift linkage, axles)

"We offer the conversion engine mounts and the universal K series conversion wiring harness.
I can also get axles as well, but I will need dimensions from you once the engine is mounted into the car."
"The mounts are $499, the conversion harness is $349.
The prices do not include shipping. Please give me your shipping address and I can give you a total."

Innovative never answered my email and hasport said they are not making any swap items. I heard rcrew is making a shifter linkage but haven't found how to contact them.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Innovative has mounts out now. Im trying to find out about the shfiter cables and axels.

Wiring seems to be hit and miss. Rywire told me 1000 plus.. I know for sure the spyder isnt can bus and im trying to talk to people who have done the swap to figure out how they did their wireing. It seems to me we need to keep our factoru ecu and also use the honda ecu.
 

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Aside from the mounts the only "hard" part is see is the shift linkage. If they have a linkage kit out or plans for that the rest is just simple out sourcing. Coolant system can be easily made up, axles easily ordered, header is already made, as well as a "custom" intake. Anyone have any info about the trans mods needed.
 

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Aside from the mounts the only "hard" part is see is the shift linkage. If they have a linkage kit out or plans for that the rest is just simple out sourcing. Coolant system can be easily made up, axles easily ordered, header is already made, as well as a "custom" intake. Anyone have any info about the trans mods needed.
Shifter linkage is pretty easy to fabricate but innovative have one under testing, i have some pics of it that they send me some time ago,

Other than the linkage there in no other mods needed to the transmisson.
 

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Talked to innovative yesterday, they have linkage done. Monday my car goes back to Sportcar motion and the transplant will start.
 

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I see you are from Cali. Are you planning keeping it road legal (register engine/smog)? If yes, do you have a specific plan?
The way I understand it. The car must have a motor from the same manufacturer and it must be the same year or newer to be legal. Also if it is a different motor it must be equipped with all the evap and emissions related systems of the donor cars motor to pass smog for that motor. The only exception is if the car is older than 73 I believe. Don't quote me on that.

If any of this info is wrong please correct me it's just off the top of my head.
 

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The way I understand it. The car must have a motor from the same manufacturer and it must be the same year or newer to be legal. Also if it is a different motor it must be equipped with all the evap and emissions related systems of the donor cars motor to pass smog for that motor. The only exception is if the car is older than 73 I believe. Don't quote me on that.

If any of this info is wrong please correct me it's just off the top of my head.
Doesn't have to be same manufacturer. It just has to be same year as car or newer. Also it would be easier to get a USDM honda engine legalized than a JDM. They are picky about the header. Best to use a stock Honda exhaust manifold, stock air box, stock ECU.

 

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Doesn't have to be same manufacturer. It just has to be same year as car or newer. Also it would be easier to get a USDM honda engine legalized than a JDM. They are picky about the header. Best to use a stock Honda exhaust manifold, stock air box, stock ECU.

Oh ok so that's good news! Except that I'm swapping Ina fully built K24/20 (2.5L) with 12.5:1 comp and stag 2 cams....using a stock airbox but the header will be an aftermarket TSX header. Even if it passes visual (unlikely) I doubt the sniffer will be pleased <_<
 

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newTE=Drew1;881925]Talked to innovative yesterday, they have linkage done. Monday my car goes back to Sportcar motion and the transplant will start.[/QUOTE]

Oh this is what your doing this season. I'm envious. Please document the swap, i will most likely do the swap too. K24 are stupid cheap!

Btw when you guys mention shift linkage, you mean new shift cables?
 

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Yep k24 are also like less than half the price of a 2zz here too. Same with gear box.
 

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newTE=Drew1;881925]Talked to innovative yesterday, they have linkage done. Monday my car goes back to Sportcar motion and the transplant will start.
Oh this is what your doing this season. I'm envious. Please document the swap, i will most likely do the swap too. K24 are stupid cheap!

Btw when you guys mention shift linkage, you mean new shift cables?[/QUOTE]

by shiftelinkage we men a reverse shifter mecanism on the transmisson side so you dont have the to custom order longer cables and loop them around the transmisson.
 

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The k24 block is cheap but to make it a true performance engine with power it still needs the expensive k20 head. The TSX or type S trans are also more expensive if you want the LSD etc.

All I really know is innovative has the linkage made now, like Ikrana said the linkage comes from the other side so needs to be flipped and reversed.
 

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The k24 block is cheap but to make it a true performance engine with power it still needs the expensive k20 head. The TSX or type S trans are also more expensive if you want the LSD etc.

All I really know is innovative has the linkage made now, like Ikrana said the linkage comes from the other side so needs to be flipped and reversed.

Thanks for the clarification on the shiftlinkage.

To forgo that expensive k20 head, that money can go towards a turbo kit for the stock k24. :lol: Can stock k24 do 300 rwhp with turbo?
 

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Thanks for the clarification on the shiftlinkage.

To forgo that expensive k20 head, that money can go towards a turbo kit for the stock k24. :lol: Can stock k24 do 300 rwhp with turbo?
:lol: they take up to 600 hp with e85
 

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K24 vs k20 - same mods on both, k24 makes a lot more torque and just a little more power. It would be the better everyday engine too.

 

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The k24 block is cheap but to make it a true performance engine with power it still needs the expensive k20 head.
WRONG

K24a2 (TSX) head is very similar to the K20a2 (rsx-s) head as they both have VTEC on the intake and exhaust cams. As a matter of fact the K24a2 from 06+ has 1mm bigger intake valves and bigger cams than K20a2 heads. The k24a2 has 10.5:1 compression and the a2 has 11:1

The k20a head is very lightly ported from Honda to remove imperfections in the cast as are all Type R's are and they have the longest duration cams to carry power into higher RPM's.

the RBB intake manifold on the k24a2 is designed for low end torque because the TSX weighs over 3200 lbs that is why you see the K24a2 tq fall off quickly in the high RPMs. If you put a PRB (k20a2) intake manifold on the K24a2 you will gain a significant amount power in the upper RPM's. RBC (integra type R) is better than the RBC.. and the RRC is king (Civic type R). Not many manifolds can beat the RRC including stuff from Skunk2.

the draw back from the K24a2 swap in the transmission as you get longer gears compared to the K20a2 and K20a transmissions.

My 93 civic hatchback weighs 2120 and has a K24a1 accord block (10:1)and a stock k20a2 head and intake manifold with an Egay header. Transmission is from a K20a2 with a civic type R LSD and flywheel. It has went [email protected] With the short gearing of the K20 transmission and the K24 car absolutely rips with OEM parts.
 
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