I have a k20 head recently refurbished by Clearwater Cylinder Head w/tsx cams and gears for $550 + shipping if you are interested.Anyone here done the K24 bottom end with the K20A2 cylinder head and oil pump?
Weighing options on getting the K20A2 head or sending the K24's out for head work from K Mod.
I have been told it drops the compression ratio in the process which given my turbo goal it wouldn't hurt.
Hi did you have to shave anything of the motor to fit the intake ?Hey guys, the Cracked Up Racing MR2 is coming along nicely.
I got my engine and transmission mounted and wanted to share some clearance captures.
First, the Skunk2 Ultra manifold clears the firewall very well.
Second, using an 80mm K-Tuned throttle body with the Acuity Hall effect TPS I had to 'tap' the firewall by approximately 1/2"
Third, with a Hard Dog roll-bar installed everything cleared. I still bumped the firewall out slightly near the alternator however. Here is the roll-bar backing plate for reference.
And it's clearance installed
Fourth, I tried to capture the awkward angle the lower coolant hose has with the following pics. I'm going to try coupling a 135 degree and a 90 degree together (using one of the many fan switch sensor adaptors) and see if it works. Using Pegasus Racing for those bends (135 Degree and 90 Degree)
From the driver-side looking passenger side:
And from the bottom looking up:
Fifth, Here is a relatively clear picture of the upper coolant hoses. Look pretty similar to OEM Spyder
Sixth, I have a K24 installed, and I know there have been concerns about oil pan clearance. Here are a couple shots for those interested.
Finally, because I thought the engine looks nice and natural in the car
Yes, you will need to unless your using the PRB head. Otherwise you will but it varies in how much based off which water housing your using. The K24a2 housing is different from the A4, and K20a2, and k20z3's, which you can use. I suggest using google or K20a.org and searching there are many photos on there but keep in mind that the photo might not be exact to yours as the water housing might be different, but it will give you a good idea. Some of the housing are so much different that people have had to trim the actual tensioner which I do not recommend.Hi did you have to shave anything of the motor to fit the intake ?
I might just drop the idea of using my rrc and opt for this intake can you take a pic of the other side of the belt and idler pulley configuration please?
Yes, you will need to unless your using the PRB head. Otherwise you will but it varies in how much based off which water housing your using. The K24a2 housing is different from the A4, and K20a2, and k20z3's, which you can use. I suggest using google or K20a.org and searching there are many photos on there but keep in mind that the photo might not be exact to yours as the water housing might be different, but it will give you a good idea. Some of the housing are so much different that people have had to trim the actual tensioner which I do not recommend.
Thank you,Yes, you will need to unless your using the PRB head. Otherwise you will but it varies in how much based off which water housing your using. The K24a2 housing is different from the A4, and K20a2, and k20z3's, which you can use. I suggest using google or K20a.org and searching there are many photos on there but keep in mind that the photo might not be exact to yours as the water housing might be different, but it will give you a good idea. Some of the housing are so much different that people have had to trim the actual tensioner which I do not recommend.
I am not a fan of the ktuned version. We have been using the tractuff one, made in the USA not china. Never have we had a issue. Plus the owner stands by his stuff.Thank you,
Iam using the RSP head that comes of the k20z4 fn2 motor. The water port on the idle assist forms part of the intake. I have seen guys just tapping the hole and use a fitting to sort out the water port or just purchase the ktuned k24 manifold adapter. I think iam going to go this route.
Has anyone tried using the OEM motor mounts in place of the Innovate Urethane mounts on the pass and driver's sides? They fit, but I wonder about how well they handle the extra weight of KSwap and if the vibration transmission difference is noticeable.Last Update: 3/12/2014
"Getting closer and closer, Thanks all who are helping make this a more managable task for others"
Shifting Mechanism: Solved
Axles: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Wiring: Researching, Updated 3/12/2014
Radiator Hoses: Solved
Heater Hoses: Solved
A/C: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Throttle Cable: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Fuel System: Solved
Exhaust System: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Anti Lock Brakes: Solved
Power Steering: Solved
General Info: Always Read First...!
Well, I have been gone for a long time and will try to keep this update. Sorry about the delay as I am in a transition period and cant work on the kswap.
Also some really big information the innovative mounts put the engine so far forward that ony the PRB intake manifold off of a RSX type S will fit. BottledFedMR2 has confirmed this and its been verifed. So anything else will require the firewall to be cut or the manifold to be shortened. This sucks but at the same time its nice to have the engine weight as far forward as possible as it puts it more centered.
I will have CONFIRMED next to everything I know for 100% is correct information.
Recommends 75 was told by innovative that its the same as a 65a poly used by
other companies. Theirs is pure poly so 65a could sag over time.
Shifting Mechanism: CONFIRMED
Use the Factory MR2 cables and this bracket will make them interface with no other mods.
**Note: 2006+ Civic SI transmission will require the shift "Arms" off of a RSX type S transmission. You will then be able to
hook up the innovative shift Mechanism as it would be on a normal RSX type s Transmission.
Axles can be ordered through Drive Shaft Shop they now have part numbers on file though they are not on their website.
Part Number: RA9040x2 and RA9041X2
There is much debate about the wiring so far its every man for him self. I haven't actually started the physical wiring so I can't confirm anything or have a proven design. There a few that have completed their swaps and have them running and driving but they all sort of do wiring different. Monkey wrench racing is working on a full swap kit and will be selling the parts all seperate. I talked to them and they will be offering a wiring solution. Right now this is known for a fact!
If you want the car to fully function like a stock spyder you will need to shotgun the ecu's (Factory Toyota ECU and Honda ECU) if you don't care and want to replace your cluster than you can run a straight honda ecu but don't expect it to be very easy and you will need to know wiring to do it. You will also find it a lot harder to get the A/C running correctly with out redesigning the whole A/C wiring system.
Now if you just run the honda ecu by its self and keep your factory cluster you will lose your TEMP gauge and a few other idiot lights.
Old Info 3/12/2014
I have found in theory that the ABS is almost completely independent of the engine control unit there is one wire going to the ECU and from talks with people its a input to tell ecu that ABS is active.
The P/S system isn't to much of an issue in my eyes as it will keep running if you don't give it any signal from ecu. So at the basic level you have P/S no matter what. Now if you want to operate factory style then you need to configure Kpro to see the signal from the pump to IDLE UP on current draw which is PIN E3-25. There is also a pin on the ecu for turning the pump on and off while the engine is running/off. This pin is E3-19 on the ECU. From what I understand if the Power Steering ECU doesn't see any input on this pin it will just stay on all the time with the car in Acc/ON postion. As for any speed varience to Pump pressure adjustments this is all done between the P/S ecu and the ABS ecu (as the ABS ecu supplies the speed signal).
I am working with innovative and when I start my swap will be using a prototype A/C adapter plate. You will want to keep your 1zz compressor as it will be the easiest by far to adapt to work. The K-series compressors are bigger and right now the 1zz one will barely fit.
I will be running wiring straight to the Hvac controls so that I can bypass the Toyota multiplex system and in essence just hard wiring the functions like Honda has in its cars all the way up to 2002. I will be recreating the same system they used in the earlier model civics that did not require any type of digital electronics. At the back of the Toyota Hvac controls the A/C switch comes out as a analog +12 or Grounded signal goes to the combo meter where it is processed and sent to the ecu on multiplex. I will just be wiring straight to this output on the Hvac control and cutting the meter and associated multiplex functions out of the circuit. I will then create a patch harness for the A/C compressor that contains the High/Low switch relays to cut the clutch and also figure out a way to wire in a freeze out switch into this same harness.
Unless I am missing something and by all means correct me. I see that if you completely remove the factory toyota ECU the only things that will not work are the A/C, Temp gauge, Some idiot lights and that is it. Everything else can be wire/jumped to function like normal.
The Temp gauge is on multiplex along with some of the idiot lights and A/C. You could make these work using the factory ECU as a multiplex conversion box and feed it the K-swaps sensor signals and hope they are in the same range as factory toyota's, or hook up factory toyota sensors in addition to the honda ones on the engine. IE: two oil pressure switches, two temp sensors ETC...
My goal is to make it as streamline and simple as possible (Wiring/Electronics). That is why I want the Toyota Ecu to be completely gone and all functions controlled by the Honda ECU.
Over all I am getting more and more done day by day and hope to start buying parts soon. I wanted to figure out most of the wiring before I even took the first bolt off the car. I'm hoping to have some of the conversion harness already made before I even start working on the car. "
Was informed that if you buy a Cruise Control delete it will allow the factory cable to bolt in no major mods needed. Getting verification but should be for a 00-04 RSX.
Radiator Hoses: CONFIRMED
He also said that the K-series and the 2zz are very similar in where all the hoses route. Since this being true He has confirmed for fact that the kswap in the lotus all the hoses fit up 99% perfect.
He said cutting one hose 2 inches is all that is required on the lotus. Since the engine is what determines the placement of hoses then the spyder should be no different then whats required for a 2zz swap.
Heater Hoses: CONFIRMED
Read Radiator Hoses Same applies.
Again BottledFedMR2 is the guy to see, he is working on bringing a A/C bracket to production. He is close to having it ready and I myself will be buying one.
It will use the 1zz compressor, he says it will be a little lower than he would like but it doesn't seem to be a big issue.
Tim said they are in the works to make a bracket for the Lotus with Kswap. So He says he doesn't see why the spyder wouldn't be able to use it. Again like the throttle cable he would need someone to test fit it and confirm or send it back to have it modified till they get it right.
But it is doable and not a big issue. The lotus has issues with A/C line clearance and he said that is one of the problems they are working on. When I asked him of the lotus and spyder have very similar bay lay outs I didn't know for sure but he said the way the firewall's are the spyder might actually have more room for the lines. Like everything though he can't say for sure.
Exhaust System: CONFIRMED
PPE makes a Header now for MR-2 Spyder with Kswap and is also available through MWR.
Collector size is 2.5" and the over all header is longer than stock one so will stick out further than factory.
Still waiting to get info on if you can use a down pipe to make it line up with the rest of the factory system.
Fuel System: CONFIRMED
You will need to run a return of some sort. You will need to also get a fuel regulator. I am still a little iffy on this from a basic swap standpoint because honda uses a returnless system factory so you might not need to do this if your just going to oem performance.
I will update this a little more in a few days. I wanted to get something new on here as I have been away from the forums for awhile and people might like to see a summary of the events going on with the Kswap. The main thing that is missing is wiring. Once there is a agreed upon design that everyone things that works and is simple as it can be will the swap get easy enough for everyone.
I am of the opinion that all of the OEM mount will work once you have the 4th mount we created on. We are currently re-developing the engine mounts and we will be re-using the OEM mount. We hope this will also reduce costsHas anyone tried using the OEM motor mounts in place of the Innovate Urethane mounts on the pass and driver's sides? They fit, but I wonder about how well they handle the extra weight of KSwap and if the vibration transmission difference is noticeable.
Can anyone post actual experience using the OEM mounts with a K20 on the passenger and driver's side?I am of the opinion that all of the OEM mount will work once you have the 4th mount we created on. We are currently re-developing the engine mounts and we will be re-using the OEM mount. We hope this will also reduce costs
Are you intending to use both the drivers and passengers side OEM mounts? Do you know of anyone who has run a K with them?I am of the opinion that all of the OEM mount will work once you have the 4th mount we created on. We are currently re-developing the engine mounts and we will be re-using the OEM mount. We hope this will also reduce costs
Did my phone call answer this?Its been a long time, but I started my car for the first time 2 days ago..
Can anyone, or bottlefed, tell me the difference between the original conversion harness and the new version? Also, why was the old AC module discontinued and how much better moltencore one?
there are ewps with pwm regulation, for example bmw uses such afaik. but that's only efficiency, otherwise a higher coolant flow will not be a real problem, i guess.Most people do not understand that electric water pump kits generally do not supply sufficient peak flow to adequately keep the temperature rise across the the engine similar to stock. OEM coolant pumps are designed to keep the total temperature rise across the engine to about 10 degrees C at full-power across the engine speed range. That means a certain number of GPM or L/min per HP. 10 C temp rise is good number to prevent boiling and thermal stress in the hottest parts of the cylinder head. It is all about managing internal surface temps. A good example is that a 200 HP engine needs about 60 GPM peak flow to achieve this. I do not think you are going to find an electric water pump kit that is able to supply 60 GPM.
So how do folks get away with EWP conversions? In normal driving, and even most track driving, you don't stay very long at full load. So when the coolant flow rate does not match what is required for an ideal temp rise across the engine, the engine-out temp get higher, peak metal internal temps peak and you get local boiling, and average coolant temp goes up, but as soon as you back-off on the throttle, the temps settle-down and you don't boil-over. The problem is that you are adding thermal stress to the hottest high heat-flux arts of the cylinder head. I would not expect a high-output cylinder-head with an electric coolant pump to last as long as one with a properly-sized mechanical pump. You might expect head cracks or head gasket failures.
In terms of efficiency, an electric pump is generally pretty efficient as a pump, but you lose all of the efficiency in getting the electricity to the pump. Typical car alternators are only about 60% efficient, and the electric motor is only about 85% efficient. Of course an OEM pump wastes energy at light loads because it is pumping enough coolant for full-load at any rpm. I will not use an electric pump conversion in an engine that I want to last for a long time.
The BMW and Volvo EWP is only about 400 watts, and BMW had to do a lot of work to reduce the flow resistance of the coolant circuit so there would be sufficient coolant flow rate. Once a PWM motor goes above about 400 watts, the power electronics get really expensive.there are ewps with pwm regulation, for example bmw uses such afaik. but that's only efficiency, otherwise a higher coolant flow will not be a real problem, i guess.