[davesseasonal06]

Just finished installing my new Kicker DS65.2 component speakers. They sound amazing! They are a lot more clear and have a lot better bass than stock.

Off with the door panel

Comparison of the new tweeters with the old

As you guys probably already know, you have to gut the old speakers to put in the new. The only thing I did different then most was that I kept the wood and screwed the speakers into it rather than removing the wood and silicone it. The door panel now has a reallly small gap at the bottom though, but it doesnt affect the quality or anything.

New fridge magnets.
I got the Kickers on ebay for about $75. One thing that I also found wierd about the install was that the speakers actually didnt have as good of quality with the crossovers as opposed to without, so i didnt install them. Lemme know whatcha think

 

[Dr. Spyder]

Were you going from stock to these or did you have aftermarket already? Looks good. Kicker products are good quality.

 

[davesseasonal06]

they were stock

 

[bluespyderman]

Unfortunately, the pics are not available at this point.

I am wondering what you are talking about in regard to gutting the OEM speakers.
I purchased a pair of Kicker DS60 speakers. They came with plastic adaptors but I still have to center them over the holes and drill new mounting holes. But I did not have to gut anything. Not sure what you mean by this. I just removed the three mounting screws from the OEM, disconnected the plug and pulled them out.

My other question is that you seem happy with the sound. After installing one of these in my 2000, I noticed that the bass was not as good as the OEM (OEM you could feel the bass in the door panels, with the Kicker you could not feel anything.)

So I called crutchfields, where I bought them, and they told me that the speakers have a "break in" period for about 2 to 3 weeks until the cones reach full flex. Has anyone ever heard of this "break in" period or is this guy just giving me a line of shit?

Do you have an OEM head unit, a Scion head unit, or some other aftermarket head unit?
Are you using an amplifier or just the head unit to power the speakers? I am trying to figure out why the Kickers don't sound better than the OEM's since everyone seems to think they are better in sound.

thanks

 

[dev]

Unfortunately, the pics are not available at this point.


My other question is that you seem happy with the sound. After installing one of these in my 2000, I noticed that the bass was not as good as the OEM (OEM you could feel the bass in the door panels, with the Kicker you could not feel anything.)

So I called crutchfields, where I bought them, and they told me that the speakers have a "break in" period for about 2 to 3 weeks until the cones reach full flex. Has anyone ever heard of this "break in" period or is this guy just giving me a line of shit?

I am trying to figure out why the Kickers don't sound better than the OEM's since everyone seems to think they are better in sound.

thanks

Two points here that I can address.
Speaker break in is a subject of controversy in the audiofile community. Some believe that the driver needs to loosen up and the materials needs to form a series of micro cracks in the cone for them to operate efficiently.

Others believe it is a trick by audio manufactures to buy them some time so that you will eventually get use to the sound and actually think they are sounding better.

They have researched this scientifically and found that the instruments don't lie and there was no perceivable difference in the audio spectrum. Then they conducted blind studies and it was pretty conclusive that it was a placebo effect.

The second point of why there will be less bass is simply because most aftermarket speakers need to be amped in order to open up the sound threshold. Most stock speakers are far more efficient so they can utilize better the little power that the headunit puts out.

So in conclusion when choosing a speaker that will be run without an amp make sure you purchase an efficient speaker.

Also just to note since some people think kicker is quality, it isn't .

 

[rpaltman]

The second point of why there will be less bass is simply because most aftermarket speakers need to be amped in order to open up the sound threshold. Most stock speakers are far more efficient so they can utilize better the little power that the headunit puts out.

So in conclusion when choosing a speaker that will be run without an amp make sure you purchase an efficient speaker.

Dev - I defer to your expertise on the more technical aspects, but wanted to clarify Greg's comments and provide more facts and circumstances. He had swapped the stock Toyota head unit for the Scion T1806, which puts out 40 watts x 4 channels. I don't know how he set the SSP ("Scion Sound Processing") and the (admittedly limited) three band equalizer. The Kicker DS60s are rated at 50 watts per speaker.. so, I'd think the head unit and speaker are reasonably matched, no?

Rich

 

[dev]

Dev - I defer to your expertise on the more technical aspects, but wanted to clarify Greg's comments and provide more facts and circumstances. He had swapped the stock Toyota head unit for the Scion T1806, which puts out 40 watts x 4 channels. I don't know how he set the SSP ("Scion Sound Processing") and the (admittedly limited) three band equalizer. The Kicker DS60s are rated at 50 watts per speaker.. so, I'd think the head unit and speaker are reasonably matched, no?

Rich

That's a good point and to be very honest with you when we talk about specifications you have to match up bullcrap watts with bullcrap watts. Bullcrap watts is what the manufacture fudges so they can claim a higher output on paper but it's anything but that. They usually measure these cheater watts based on specific frequency ranges or parameters they determined.

The question is does the Scion head unit have more watts then the Spyders? Yes I believe it does but it's going to be more like 10 watts RMS.

The second question is will it be enough to power the kicker speakers? again yes but it's still not enough to reach it's optimum sound potential. Also that Scion unit with it's processing will only muddy up the sound and make aftermarket speakers sounds like crap anyway.

The only way to maximize your cheap audio experience in my opinion as I have said before is to get a pair of efficient aftermarket speakers like ones offered by pioneer or another brand that has above a 90% efficiency rating.

 

[bluespyderman]

Dev and Rich:

Thanks for the technical help - I am not very educated in the audio sound department.

One thing for sure is that the Scion head unit with the stock speakers provides a MUCH better listening experience than the Toyota head unit did.

So, I guess the options are:
(a) find aftermarket speakers with above 90% efficiency rating
(b) stick with the stock speakers till they crap out and then (a)
(c) locate and install an amplifier to properly power the kickers.

Again, I would not have a clue as to what amplifier to get, how to connect it, where to put it, etc. I guess I would need some audio guru help on that one.

In the meantime, I am going with option (b) and placing the kickers back up for sale.
At this point I am willing to take $25 plus $5 shipping to anyone who is interested.

Greg

 

[dev]

Dev and Rich:

Thanks for the technical help - I am not very educated in the audio sound department.

One thing for sure is that the Scion head unit with the stock speakers provides a MUCH better listening experience than the Toyota head unit did.

So, I guess the options are:
(a) find aftermarket speakers with above 90% efficiency rating
(b) stick with the stock speakers till they crap out and then (a)
(c) locate and install an amplifier to properly power the kickers.

Again, I would not have a clue as to what amplifier to get, how to connect it, where to put it, etc. I guess I would need some audio guru help on that one.

In the meantime, I am going with option (b) and placing the kickers back up for sale.
At this point I am willing to take $25 plus $5 shipping to anyone who is interested.

Greg

Option C is an interesting one because you really should get an aftermarket head unit with low level
outputs. Most cheap amp manufactures and sadly some of the good ones now allow you to run high level inputs like from the speaker wires which again ruins the sound potential and all the cost that went into that amp.

A good cheap pair of efficient Pioneer coaxial if they still sell them would sound way better then $1000 pair of Rainbow speakers on stock headunit or even the Scion headunit.
Don't get suckered with component systems to replace your tweeter because it will sound worse without tuning. Stick with cheap coaxials and hear them sing.

 

[rpaltman]

A good cheap pair of efficient Pioneer coaxial if they still sell them would sound way better then $1000 pair of Rainbow speakers on stock headunit or even the Scion headunit.
Don't get suckered with component systems to replace your tweeter because it will sound worse without tuning. Stick with cheap coaxials and hear them sing.

To clarify, the stock Toyota head unit and the Scion head unit are less than desirable because they neither (1) have enough power to power a decent set of 40-50 watt speakers without an amplifier nor (2) have low level RCA outputs to use with a decent amplifier?

Thus, a good strategy, even if with limited funds, is to buy an aftermarket head unit that puts out decent power (and has low level RCA outputs) and coaxial 6.5" speakers. An amplifier would be optional. Is that correct?

Rich

 

[Eaglez47]

I got this exact component set for Christmas this year, but have no gotten around to figuring out what I all need to install them. I can't see the pictures! Can you PM me a list of everything you used to get them in the car? I have an amp that I am looking to use to power them.

 

[bluespyderman]

Dev:
I found these Pioneer speakers on Crutchfields but I am not sure how I am going to determine whether or not they are 90% efficient. Do you happen to know a Pioneer model number that would provide the best sound with Scion head Unit?
Thanks


http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSD1602/Pioneer-TS-D1602R.html

 

[dev]

To clarify, the stock Toyota head unit and the Scion head unit are less than desirable because they neither (1) have enough power to power a decent set of 40-50 watt speakers without an amplifier nor (2) have low level RCA outputs to use with a decent amplifier?

Thus, a good strategy, even if with limited funds, is to buy an aftermarket head unit that puts out decent power (and has low level RCA outputs) and coaxial 6.5" speakers. An amplifier would be optional. Is that correct?

Rich

I think you got it. A good strategy is determined by your budget to a point then it's about how much interest you have in car stereo to be a hobby.

I would brake it down like this.

Plan A : stock or Scion head unit and efficient coaxial speakers and you will be eliminating the stock tweeter.

Plan B : New head unit with line level RCA outputs, AMP and good quality coaxial speakers.

Plan C: New head unit with digital active capable , Component set and a four channel amplifier or two separate amps. A whole lot of tuning that will drive you mad at which point you don't enjoy music just the gear.

 

[dev]

Dev:
I found these Pioneer speakers on Crutchfields but I am not sure how I am going to determine whether or not they are 90% efficient. Do you happen to know a Pioneer model number that would provide the best sound with Scion head Unit?
Thanks


http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSD1602/Pioneer-TS-D1602R.html

It's been awhile and I may have confused efficiency with sensitivity. Essentially it amounts to the same thing however it is not a technically accurate figure.

So yes look for a speaker that has above 90db sensitivity. I would say somewhere in the mid 90s and it will not take as much power to produce good sound. These speakers are usually cheap so they make good value for what they are.

I had a pair of audiophile earplugs that was so inefficient that it sounded terrible hooked up to my mp3 player until I hooked up a headphone amp and the source being my CD player and then they would sing.


Another rule of thumb is that you want all of your components to be of equal quality. Say for instance you have a great amp and speakers then your weakest link being a crappy head unit only gets amplified and all of it's flaws will come to light.

If you stick with equipment that is not all quality then it will blend in nicely and produce balanced sound that is punchy and to the ear will sound alright.

 

[dev]

One thing that I also found wierd about the install was that the speakers actually didnt have as good of quality with the crossovers as opposed to without, so i didnt install them. Lemme know whatcha think

I found this interesting. The reason why the Speakers sound better without the crossovers is simply because the crossovers rob what ever power there is going to the speaker. At this point power is more important then limiting frequencies.
It's only when you amp the damn thing the passive crossover boxes will then fine tune the sound and will prevent the speaker from being overdriven.

I personally hate those power robing passive crossover boxes and that is why an active set up is miles better.