[dev]

i've now got this mod running now with the stock tires, and I am happy with the results. Not much lighter steering than just turning off the pump, but an acceptable compromize.

Dave

My experience was entirely different. With the PS in the circuit it was a much greater force to turn. With the lines looped I had a 50% reduction in force.
My first car in life had a manual rack and this feels just like it except the Spyders turning ratio is much quicker.

 

[OldMan]

Post Deleted

 

[dev]

It's refreshing to see this discussion revived.

Sooner or Later, EHPS fluid will become unavailable.
Sooner or Later, the Power Steering will fail.
In this eventuality, what shall we do?

We must either find an alternative to EHPS fluid or forgo power steering.
I never understood why the Spyder had PowerSteering in the first place.



BTW -------------------
I brought this topic up some time ago, but nobody cared.
Times change, and those 'ahead of the curve' must wait.

PS advantages are better because you can quickly toss the car around and can take advantage of a shorter ratio. The manual rack gives you better road feel but it also dulls the nimbleness of the car.
Formula one cars use PS and if it didn't have enough of an advantage they wouldn't use it.

Bottom line is, it's a mixed bag but for me I like the manual feel because it give you a go-cart like sensation.

 

[OldMan]

Post Deleted

 

[dev]

Dev:
It's good to see you back on SpyderChat.

At the moment I'm deeply into one of my effeminate hobbies of trying to pull the perfect espresso shot. It's a very complex subject dealing with various brew temps and pressures but I'm on the verge of mastering it to my satisfaction. Then I will get bored again and will get back to my manly hobbies. Tired of debating women on coffee forms.

I almost have enough energy to get my car fixed up and ready to drive after three years.

 

[OldMan]

Post Deleted

 

[dev]

I think I understand your meaning:
Disregard the coffee: Starbucks has already established that a cup of coffee should cost about $50.
The Moose Menace in Canada is well known. The Elk population in Siberia and the reindeer problem in Lapland are under control.

All that aside. I'm glad to see you posting on SpyderChat again.

Actually I got into the coffee hobby three months back from the guy that sold me his 2zz years ago. Basically showed me how bad Starbucks actually is to the point where I no longer crave it. I don't plan to compete in the Barista world championship anytime soon but it's good not to be ignorance about wasting money on $5 coffees.

 

[dblotii]

My experience was entirely different. With the PS in the circuit it was a much greater force to turn. With the lines looped I had a 50% reduction in force.
My first car in life had a manual rack and this feels just like it except the Spyders turning ratio is much quicker.

It 's all relative. Overall I found the steering with just the pump turned off unaccepatable, but the depowered rack is quite acceptable; just a bit heavier than I thought it would be.

Dave

 

[SDSUsnowboards]

I deleted the power steering and looped the lines. The steering is unacceptably heavy in a racing environment. It's acceptable while putting around the pits and access roads.

In summary: I regret pulling the power steering with all my heart and I want it back again. I'm in market for buying one.

 

[Bill]

I deleted the power steering and looped the lines. The steering is unacceptably heavy in a racing environment. It's acceptable while putting around the pits and access roads.

In summary: I regret pulling the power steering with all my heart and I want it back again. I'm in market for buying one.

Man, If it weren't for the fact that it would bump me up to too high of an AutoX class, I would sell you my PS stuff in a heartbeat. I haven't driven it with the PS off yet, but just sitting still with the engine off, the wheels turn easier than my last car (non PS from factory) did.

 

[Audi_kraut]

I deleted the power steering and looped the lines. The steering is unacceptably heavy in a racing environment. It's acceptable while putting around the pits and access roads.

In summary: I regret pulling the power steering with all my heart and I want it back again. I'm in market for buying one.

My car came with the PS looped, so my opinion is biased as I never had PS in the car. But oddly my experience is the opposite of yours. Around the pits and anything under 20mph I noticed that the steering felt heavy and cumbersome due to the low speeds. Once I was up to speed (especially on track) the steering felt just right and I never felt fatigued after multiple, consecutive scessions. This is the reason I went one step further and performed the manual rack modification.

It is important to note that this is completely subjective and largely dependent on both one's physical fitness and alignment settings (caster?)

Man, If it weren't for the fact that it would bump me up to too high of an AutoX class, I would sell you my PS stuff in a heartbeat. I haven't driven it with the PS off yet, but just sitting still with the engine off, the wheels turn easier than my last car (non PS from factory) did.

I remember the PS pump being one of the first items I sold off the car. I was very surprised by how much they were worth.. but at the time I knew nothing about the car.

 

[SDSUsnowboards]

My car came with the PS looped, so my opinion is biased as I never had PS in the car. But oddly my experience is the opposite of yours. Around the pits and anything under 20mph I noticed that the steering felt heavy and cumbersome due to the low speeds. Once I was up to speed (especially on track) the steering felt just right and I never felt fatigued after multiple, consecutive scessions. This is the reason I went one step further and performed the manual rack modification.

It is important to note that this is completely subjective and largely dependent on both one's physical fitness and alignment settings (caster?)




I remember the PS pump being one of the first items I sold off the car. I was very surprised by how much they were worth.. but at the time I knew nothing about the car.

Castor, ah, yes. I forgot all about that. I'm running a lot more castor than what the car comes with stock. Maybe I should undo it, install dev's bushings, and re-do the alignment before passing final judgment.

I'm also in terrible shape. 5'3" @120lbs. Pretty skinny. That can be fixed too.

 

[triz]

At the moment I'm deeply into one of my effeminate hobbies of trying to pull the perfect espresso shot. It's a very complex subject dealing with various brew temps and pressures but I'm on the verge of mastering it to my satisfaction. Then I will get bored again and will get back to my manly hobbies. Tired of debating women on coffee forms.

I almost have enough energy to get my car fixed up and ready to drive after three years.

 

[dev]

More like this.

 

[uwm]

My experience was entirely different. With the PS in the circuit it was a much greater force to turn. With the lines looped I had a 50% reduction in force.
My first car in life had a manual rack and this feels just like it except the Spyders turning ratio is much quicker.

hmm. Different from my experience. I removed PS and just connected the tubes without removing all the fluid. I jacked up the front tires and turned the steering wheel, expecting resistance from the fluid and that it would be pretty heavy to turn. But it wasn't! I felt like just the weight of the steering rack, steering wheel, and the tires/wheels explained all the resistance. I could easily turn the steering wheel with one finger.

Was my test not valid? will the dynamics differ when I'm actually driving?? hmm

 

[Audi_kraut]

hmm. Different from my experience. I removed PS and just connected the tubes without removing all the fluid. I jacked up the front tires and turned the steering wheel, expecting resistance from the fluid and that it would be pretty heavy to turn. But it wasn't! I felt like just the weight of the steering rack, steering wheel, and the tires/wheels explained all the resistance. I could easily turn the steering wheel with one finger.

Was my test not valid? will the dynamics differ when I'm actually driving?? hmm

Lol, think this through. If you jack up the front tires and turn the steering wheel, would you expect the steering to be heavy... What resistance would you expect to feel...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[uwm]

Lol, think this through. If you jack up the front tires and turn the steering wheel, would you expect the steering to be heavy... What resistance would you expect to feel...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The resistance of the fluid, which is what everyone is arguing about.

 

[scorptrigger]

Let me know how it compares when you actually drive it in relation to driving it with the pump in the system and not working. I am planning on doing this as well.

hmm. Different from my experience. I removed PS and just connected the tubes without removing all the fluid. I jacked up the front tires and turned the steering wheel, expecting resistance from the fluid and that it would be pretty heavy to turn. But it wasn't! I felt like just the weight of the steering rack, steering wheel, and the tires/wheels explained all the resistance. I could easily turn the steering wheel with one finger.

Was my test not valid? will the dynamics differ when I'm actually driving?? hmm

 

[uwm]

Let me know how it compares when you actually drive it in relation to driving it with the pump in the system and not working. I am planning on doing this as well.

It feels the same, except without the pump, the front is lighter, which makes the steering lighter.

My front is almost completely empty. No AC condenser, no fog lights, no PS, no window washer fluid, no horn, no spare tire, no plastics covers/ storage. Not having those is making a huge difference.

 

[scorptrigger]

Hmm, sorry to hear that(that you did not notice any improvement due to less resistance without the pump). I actually want to add as much useful weight to the front as possible because I added weight in the back with the 2gr/e153 lsd transmission. I did move my battery forward. Plan to add front stb, member brace and TTE style under body brace. I will be removing the power steering pump though and maybe making a place to mount the spare tire/jack. I like less weight which is why I chose the spyder, but I also want to try to keep it balanced. I was tempted to get a carbon fiber rear lid but I could not justify the price tag of $700. I did remove the rear x brace, not by choice but because it does not fit over the 2gr, but then nobody seems to think it does much anyway. I am also installing a spoiler in the rear which is not in favor of lightening the rear. It would be interesting to get the car on some corner balance scales at least to see where I am at and how things change.

It feels the same, except without the pump, the front is lighter, which makes the steering lighter.

My front is almost completely empty. No AC condenser, no fog lights, no PS, no window washer fluid, no horn, no spare tire, no plastics covers/ storage. Not having those is making a huge difference.