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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I haven't had much luck starting threads on this site ... a few of them just never appeared, but then it took me 4 or 5 tries to be able to even register with out be accused of being spam, but figured I would try to share once again just to see how it goes.

This is copied directly from my blog originally posted at http://mostdesigns.com/?p=356 so there is probably a lot of repetitive info that is available in a lot of other places on here regarding the differences in transmissions etc.








Since shortly after picking up the Spyder the transmission has been getting louder and louder .... with bearing noise. After a lot of debate between a simple bearing replacement on the current 5 speed, a swap to the c60 GTS Celica 6 speed, or going with a proven E153 out of my own collection, I finally decided on the 6 speed from a 2000 model year Celica.

Getting the trans out was simple enough ... especially when you just practiced doing it about a month early to throw a new clutch in it.



The only only thing that isn't a simple remove and replace operation for this swap is the shift linkage at the transmission itself.

C60


C56


You can see when Toyota moved the drivetrain to the rear of the MR2's they moved the shifter to the "front" of them. They have done this on all three generations. In the past when swapping front wheel drive to mid engine and opposite, it has been pretty easy to just swap the linkage and internal shifter shaft between the transmissions to make things work. The sixth gear complicates things a bit.

Here you can see just how different these are. The MR2's is on the upper right vs the FWD 6 speed on the lower left.


After stripping the shafts down we can see that just simply swapping over the selectors will not work.


The splines are not long enough on the Spyder's original shaft.

You could potentially try to just use the roll pin to hold it but the roll pin holes are not it right location either. Another option would be drilling a new hole in the right location, but it was too close to the existing hole for my own comfort, and that still doesn't fix the spline issue.

So the obvious next step would be ......



... chuck the 6 speed shaft in the lathe and start modifying.

cut the shift linkage end off and move it to the other side


After cutting the end down to size the next step was to drill the two pieces for a pin to be inserted.


This is where I noticed my mistake. I did a quick over all length measurement to determine my cut length. However the notch for the external shift linkage was not the same distance from the end on both transmissions. Whoops! Since I didn't have another (non hardened anyway) shaft to cut up, I did the next best thing and made a longer pin.

Now it is the right distance and has been tacked.


Back into the lathe with a neat little tool I copied off of someone on the net.


This allowed me to make sure the tacks were as straight as possible.

After a few cycles of welding and machining we have ..


What should be a 6 speed shaft for a mid engine car. This would probably be a good time to mention this piece is available from a shop for $170. I just wasn't going to order anything with out first hand knowledge, and by the time I had it apart, it was easier, quicker and cheaper to make it myself than to order it.

While I had the lathe fired up I figured it was just as simple to make a plug for the rear (no longer used shifter hole)



I had to start with a rather large chunk of aluminum stock since the diameter was 28mm and the next size down that I had was 1".

All done and installed.


The results I have mixed feelings about. I couldn't be happier with the 6 speeds ratio's, but unfortunately I don't think I got the best example of the transmission out there. The second gear synchro has seen better days and has some issues on the downshift unless you get the rev match absolutely perfect. I'll have to talk with the salvage yard and see what the options are.



There area a few more images of some of the processes in the gallery.
 

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That shaft is available, either from MWR (or directly from Toyota at a better price), for a about a buck-two-forty-nine for the time you spent on a DIY reventing-the-wheel project.
But a tip of the hat for gumption.
 

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That shaft is available, either from MWR (or directly from Toyota at a better price), for a about a buck-two-forty-nine for the time you spent on a DIY reventing-the-wheel project.
But a tip of the hat for gumption.
Do you have said part number for the Toyota part by chance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
it's refreshing to see pictures of machine tools in threads. Very good work sir
Thanks, it makes the project all the more enjoyable when you are building more than you are buying.

That shaft is available, either from MWR (or directly from Toyota at a better price), for a about a buck-two-forty-nine for the time you spent on a DIY reventing-the-wheel project.
But a tip of the hat for gumption.
I found the one from MWR and assumed it was a re-badged Toyota part, but never stumbled across the part number myself. Like i said in the post not having first hand knowledge of the parts needing modification or replacement, i wasn't going to throw out money without seeing what needed to be done first. When I finally tore into it, it was Sunday afternoon and neither place was open. It made more sense to me to spend an hour doing the work rather than stopping and waiting a week for parts, especially when I don't make $170 an hour.

Do you have said part number for the Toyota part by chance.
You might try some of the UK forums since they had the transmission stock. Not sure if it is the shaft in the SMT 6 speed that was offered in the states or not. I suspect it is, but again no first hand knowledge.


Sadly I may have to actually try to find another 6 speed shaft so I can put this trans back to stock to exchange it at the yard since the 2nd gear snychro is pretty bad. Anyway have one they want to sell me?
 

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That shaft is available, either from MWR (or directly from Toyota at a better price), .
damit I could of got this a WHOLE lot cheaper. As I get a dealer employee discount. :angry:.

I personally dont like the 6spd. Gears 1-3 are not fun to find and it seems like Im shifting on a angle. As for gas mileage I get mid to low 20's (pfc tune?). Hopefully the turbo will change this.
 

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Thanks, it makes the project all the more enjoyable when you are building more than you are buying.



I found the one from MWR and assumed it was a re-badged Toyota part, but never stumbled across the part number myself. Like i said in the post not having first hand knowledge of the parts needing modification or replacement, i wasn't going to throw out money without seeing what needed to be done first. When I finally tore into it, it was Sunday afternoon and neither place was open. It made more sense to me to spend an hour doing the work rather than stopping and waiting a week for parts, especially when I don't make $170 an hour.



You might try some of the UK forums since they had the transmission stock. Not sure if it is the shaft in the SMT 6 speed that was offered in the states or not. I suspect it is, but again no first hand knowledge.


Sadly I may have to actually try to find another 6 speed shaft so I can put this trans back to stock to exchange it at the yard since the 2nd gear snychro is pretty bad. Anyway have one they want to sell me?
I do, pm me

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I personally dont like the 6spd. Gears 1-3 are not fun to find and it seems like Im shifting on a angle. As for gas mileage I get mid to low 20's (pfc tune?). Hopefully the turbo will change this.
I know that feeling.... I was going to look for a GTS Celica to test drive to see how it felt in that (its been years), but it just feel like the whole pattern is shifted way right to me. I can still find the gears okay just that second gear crunch that pisses me off.

I do, pm me

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

PM incoming.
 

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I had the 6 speed out of a Matrix put in. At first, I could not find any of the gears. I have a TRD short shifter and was always trying to start out in R or 3rd. I could not hit 2nd cleanly unless very careful.

However, I adapted and I am now very comfortable with the shift pattern and have no trouble finding every gear cleanly except a rare 3rd to second downshift where I will overshoot to the left and hit the gate briefly instead of 2nd. That one, I am still careful with.

The 6 speed matches up perfectly with the 2ZZ and I can stay in lift from the 1st to 2nd shift all the way up to 5th to 6th. I have the 4.53:1 gearing.

Mileage has been 34 mpg with local driving plus a highway trip down to Mid-Ohio (about 130mi round trip) and 29.9 with just local driving including multiple WOT runs. Celica ECU.

All things considered, I like the 6 speed a lot and would not go back to the 5.
 

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Why on earth would you purchase the shift shaft when you have a lathe and skill like this? Excellent use of knowledge and ingenuity. Those of us without either opt for the shortcut to our bank account's chagrin. You probably could make a pretty penny if you were to open yourself up to being a shift shaft modder and set your prices below that of MWR's and other vendors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I had the 6 speed out of a Matrix put in. At first, I could not find any of the gears. I have a TRD short shifter and was always trying to start out in R or 3rd. I could not hit 2nd cleanly unless very careful.

However, I adapted and I am now very comfortable with the shift pattern and have no trouble finding every gear cleanly except a rare 3rd to second downshift where I will overshoot to the left and hit the gate briefly instead of 2nd. That one, I am still careful with.

The 6 speed matches up perfectly with the 2ZZ and I can stay in lift from the 1st to 2nd shift all the way up to 5th to 6th. I have the 4.53:1 gearing.

Mileage has been 34 mpg with local driving plus a highway trip down to Mid-Ohio (about 130mi round trip) and 29.9 with just local driving including multiple WOT runs. Celica ECU.

All things considered, I like the 6 speed a lot and would not go back to the 5.
I was hoping it was just me missing 2nd and hitting to the left of it, but sadly i've even tried going for a 1-2-N and back into 2 at like 20mph and still get a freaking grind. I'm really not looking forward to yanking it out again, but I want even less to spend that kind of money and end up w/ a bad transmission as a repair for a bad transmission lol.

You probably could make a pretty penny if you were to open yourself up to being a shift shaft modder and set your prices below that of MWR's and other vendors.
I've thought about it, and actually make things like custom length end links for some of the 4Runner owners. First step for me would be to put some time on this and make sure it is 100%. The place I used to work would try to sell products before they were designed or tested and it made life more interesting that I want my personal name associated with. Second thing would be to grab a couple of stock 6 speed shafts so it would be an exchange basis and not a drop what I'm doing to make sure turn around time is good thing.

First thing though is to find another shaft so i can pull this trans out and go exchange it. :angry:
 

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Do you have said part number for the Toyota part by chance.
Here you go:
http://spyderchat.com/forums/showth...er-Shaft-(C60-SWAP)-PARTS&p=851455#post851455
Read my post to that thread. I like it when guys are offered good deals on Spyderchat, but I'm pi$$ed off when they're taken advantage of. I did the leg work to research what these numbers are, and any of you guys could have done the same. So here's a free-bee!
Oh, and if my post to that thread gets deleted (for whatever reason), just PM me for these part numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just post them here:

These are the OEM part numbers for these parts that came as standard on the EU/UK 6MT from 2003 forward:
The Shifter Shaft: 33261-17101 (shop online and you'll find it at about $105).
The Reverse Block Out: 33506-17101 (shop online and you'll find it at about $66).
Then if that gets deleted they are still available to help people out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Unfortunately your pics were missing from the "how to" thread to see the difference in the shafts before I tore into everything. Did Toyota ever change the shaft on the FWD C60s? I had picked up a couple of what are suppose to be 6 speed FWD shafts but they resemble the 5speed shaft in every way other than the direction that the shift levers would be bolted on.

and I still need a good 6 speed shaft to throw back in this transmission so I can go exchange it and get one w/ a good 2nd gear snychro! anyone have one to sell? really need it by this weekend.
 

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I have a bunch. I bought a bunch of shafts to machine and had an exchange program going for years. PM me your address. I have to go to UPS tomorrow and mail some notarized documents.
 

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I was hoping it was just me missing 2nd and hitting to the left of it, but sadly i've even tried going for a 1-2-N and back into 2 at like 20mph and still get a freaking grind. I'm really not looking forward to yanking it out again, but I want even less to spend that kind of money and end up w/ a bad transmission as a repair for a bad transmission lol.
mine does the same exact freaking thing!!! it annoys the crap out of me. and sometimes ill get a grind going into reverse. Right now that is probably my only complaint, its fun to drive but not being able to down shift to second until like 15 mph is just ridiculous. :-(
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have a bunch. I bought a bunch of shafts to machine and had an exchange program going for years. PM me your address. I have to go to UPS tomorrow and mail some notarized documents.
PM sent! thanks

mine does the same exact freaking thing!!! it annoys the crap out of me. and sometimes ill get a grind going into reverse. Right now that is probably my only complaint, its fun to drive but not being able to down shift to second until like 15 mph is just ridiculous. :-(
Well the yard I got this one from had 2, i'm going to hopefully exchange mine this weekend for the other one. If it sucks you might be in luck, my next write up will probably be snychro replacement on this thing. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well I was really hoping to update this thread with a happy ending, but no such luck ... after a little mix up with 6 vs 5 speed shafts from one member, and another member offering to send me a shaft, but never following through or even answering the PM he asked me to send :( I found a local Lotus shop that had one out of a spare transmission (not a customers) that they could loan me to go do the exchange with the yard. Dropped the trans last night, converted back to non MR2 shifting and made the 130 mile drive this morning to exchange it. Swapped the "new" trans in and now not only does my 2nd gear grind on a downshift, but I have gained a 3rd gear up shift grind. :angry: ... so guess tomorrow I will yank the trans out of this poor car for the 4th time, and call them Monday to see what they say. and yes on car-part.com they advertise it as tested :lol:
 

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... not being able to down shift to second until like 15 mph is just ridiculous. :-(
Get an old hotrodder toshow you how to doubleclutch the downshift. I had one show me on my old MG with weak synchros. I thought he had done some magic shifting to slip it into gear. It goes third, neutral, let out the clutch and rev match in neutral, clutch, shift to second and let the clutch out again. It takes practice, but when you get it right you can drive worn synchros and half ton dump trucks with style.
 
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