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Discussion Starter #21
Hondata Kpro's do support OBD2
No roll bar, but I plan to put one in. I thought this was odd, discs have been replaced with slotted discs but rest of brake system is stock. Maybe gives better cooling andmore hard stops but i know I might have to do more with brakes, correct?
 

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Better brake cooling and more consistent hard stops are influenced by several factors but the biggest is probably surface area as it pertains to both pad contact & cooling. Slotted rotors will clean the pads a bit & should give a better initial bite but in reality I’d bet it was done as a cosmetic upgrade. The reason is because a correct BBK would run around $3k.

The corners that were cut in this build (suspension...likely didn’t do bushings either, stock engine internals, no roll bar, stock brakes) are expected on an unfinished project, not one that someone would hand over a dyno sheet for. That makes me question the quality of the rest of the work done.

IMHO if you cannot do the large majority of the work yourself this car is a money pit as it is clearly far from finished. I would expect to spend several thousand dollars to get it running as either a reliable street car or safe track car. After that I would still expect the engine to grenade at some point & budget accordingly.

The individual parts are still definitely worth the price tag, but if you plan on paying a shop to do the additional work needed that may make it not worth your while. Either way, if you do take the plunge be sure to go over the car mechanically with a fine tooth comb....I’ve seen some really basic stupid things done wrong on “builds”, like seat bolts not torqued at all; both the rails to the car as well as the seat to the rails.
 

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I'm struggling to understand why there is so many comments regarding the stock brakes. Outside of the brake pad compound, I cannot see what the problem is.
 

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The brakes are the least of the issues with this car. They are fine for all but dedicated track usage. The problem is that the dog box relegates the car to non-street usage. For drag and autocross the brakes are fine. For light track usage the brakes are ok. For dedicated track usage the brakes will need upgrading at some point but that is normal for a dedicated track car. It needs a new transmission for the street. It probably needs less horsepower for the street so that the new transmission does not grenade which will help reliability and be less prone to issues caused by the stock body work limit of 245s.

Question for the OP: is this intended to be a street car or a race car? If it is intended as a street car is it as a fun occasional car or as a daily driver?
 

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I see this as a great buy, even knowing the potential issues. there is a ton of money in this build that will not be recouped. A genuine "my loss, your gain" sale.
 

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I think we/me have given you some dubious advice. Not that the advice was/is bad but only not fully based on what needs to be known about the car. Gear X makes synchro and dog gearsets for the K series. The most import question to ask the seller is, which gear x kit is installed. If it is a synchro set I would suggest you but the car. If it is a dog box and you want to track the car then no problems. If it is a dog box and you want to daily drive it I would suggest negotiating with the seller. The dog box is $4k by itself so it is possible to maybe work something out.

Secondly, there has been talk about stock engines and reliability. I doubt that is the case. Very few people take the time to install arp head studs and not also put in pistons and rods. Ask what pistons and rods, what compression. It all matters.

Finally, if you do buy it. I really suggest turning down the boost from 19psi to as low as it will go for the first few weeks. Gradually work your way up as you gain confidence in the car. It is not about driving skill or machismo it is about knowing what you have and whether it works and is safe. You need to be able to hear/feel any suspension issues. Datalog and check the tune in real world driving situations. Slowly turn it up as the car proves reliable and steady. Do know, this is a serious piece if kit. It will suck a few thousand here and there as a matter of course. It is not a matter of budgeting for brakes. It is much more than that. Good luck I hope you buy it and have fun!
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Better brake cooling and more consistent hard stops are influenced by several factors but the biggest is probably surface area as it pertains to both pad contact & cooling. Slotted rotors will clean the pads a bit & should give a better initial bite but in reality I’d bet it was done as a cosmetic upgrade. The reason is because a correct BBK would run around $3k.

The corners that were cut in this build (suspension...likely didn’t do bushings either, stock engine internals, no roll bar, stock brakes) are expected on an unfinished project, not one that someone would hand over a dyno sheet for. That makes me question the quality of the rest of the work done.

IMHO if you cannot do the large majority of the work yourself this car is a money pit as it is clearly far from finished. I would expect to spend several thousand dollars to get it running as either a reliable street car or safe track car. After that I would still expect the engine to grenade at some point & budget accordingly.

The individual parts are still definitely worth the price tag, but if you plan on paying a shop to do the additional work needed that may make it not worth your while. Either way, if you do take the plunge be sure to go over the car mechanically with a fine tooth comb....I’ve seen some really basic stupid things done wrong on “builds”, like seat bolts not torqued at all; both the rails to the car as well as the seat to the rails.
Yeah, this was most likely a budget build. It appears though that at least some of the work was quality work. I am prepared and do plan to as much of what's needed as possible. No plans to track the car, other than maybe some autocross from time-to-time.
Thanks for pointing out some things to check.
 

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I've got lots of hours behind a 911 Turbo, so I'm not too worried about being able to drive it.
Appreciate your insights on suspension, will look into further, thanks.
Uuuuuuuuu 911 turbo, that's what got me into spyder in the first place. Was about to buy 2008 997.1 and then decided to buy it after move. ----- got mr2 for fun pre-toy before 911, eventually got divorced, turned down the job, and we'll, glad I didn't buy it. Eventually that's my goal, to build up 997.1 turbo to track car. Well in two years when I am done with medschool anything is possible
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I'm struggling to understand why there is so many comments regarding the stock brakes. Outside of the brake pad compound, I cannot see what the problem is.
I hope you're correct. It's going to be a two-day a week street car so a big brake kit is probably not necessary. Any paticular pads you'd recommend?
 

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Discussion Starter #31
The brakes are the least of the issues with this car. They are fine for all but dedicated track usage. The problem is that the dog box relegates the car to non-street usage. For drag and autocross the brakes are fine. For light track usage the brakes are ok. For dedicated track usage the brakes will need upgrading at some point but that is normal for a dedicated track car. It needs a new transmission for the street. It probably needs less horsepower for the street so that the new transmission does not grenade which will help reliability and be less prone to issues caused by the stock body work limit of 245s.

Question for the OP: is this intended to be a street car or a race car? If it is intended as a street car is it as a fun occasional car or as a daily driver?
I don't understand why you say "The problem is that the dog box relegates the car to non-street usage." I've driven race cars with dog box transmissions". Yeah, the gears may wear quicker, but aside from that, why does that relegate this car to non-street use? Is that why you say car needs a new transmission for the street?

Boost has 2 settings, I'm mostly going to run 8 lbs, and 18 only for special occasions.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I see this as a great buy, even knowing the potential issues. there is a ton of money in this build that will not be recouped. A genuine "my loss, your gain" sale.
That's kind of the way I'm viewing it, but wanted feedback from you guys who know more about this particular application than I do. I might be a newbie when it comes to turbo'd Honda engines in a Spyder, but otherwise that's not the case at all.
 

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I don't understand why you say "The problem is that the dog box relegates the car to non-street usage." I've driven race cars with dog box transmissions". Yeah, the gears may wear quicker, but aside from that, why does that relegate this car to non-street use? Is that why you say car needs a new transmission for the street?

Boost has 2 settings, I'm mostly going to run 8 lbs, and 18 only for special occasions.
Have you driven a dog box on the street? I haven’t, but my Spyder has 2nd gear synchro issues and requires to be at high revs to shift without grinding. A dog box is basically that but in every gear? It just sucks to have to drive so aggressively all the time, especially if you end up in traffic or driving on very tight mountain roads.
Edit: Especially with so much HP on tap...
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I think we/me have given you some dubious advice. Not that the advice was/is bad but only not fully based on what needs to be known about the car. Gear X makes synchro and dog gearsets for the K series. The most import question to ask the seller is, which gear x kit is installed. If it is a synchro set I would suggest you but the car. If it is a dog box and you want to track the car then no problems. If it is a dog box and you want to daily drive it I would suggest negotiating with the seller. The dog box is $4k by itself so it is possible to maybe work something out.

Secondly, there has been talk about stock engines and reliability. I doubt that is the case. Very few people take the time to install arp head studs and not also put in pistons and rods. Ask what pistons and rods, what compression. It all matters.

Finally, if you do buy it. I really suggest turning down the boost from 19psi to as low as it will go for the first few weeks. Gradually work your way up as you gain confidence in the car. It is not about driving skill or machismo it is about knowing what you have and whether it works and is safe. You need to be able to hear/feel any suspension issues. Datalog and check the tune in real world driving situations. Slowly turn it up as the car proves reliable and steady. Do know, this is a serious piece if kit. It will suck a few thousand here and there as a matter of course. It is not a matter of budgeting for brakes. It is much more than that. Good luck I hope you buy it and have fun!
I'll look into the gear set but don't understand why if it's a dog box it can't be used on the street. Can you explain?
No internal engine mods.Stock internals. Boost has high (18) and low (8) settings. Because of stock internals I plan to use low setting most of the time. Don't know what that equates to in HP. Maybe 325-350? Engine should be able to handle that for quite a few miles, don't you think?
 

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Discussion Starter #35
This has almost double the HP to weight ratio of a 911 Turbo. I don’t think the people telling you to be careful are trying to be condescending. I think we all just say these things because we can all use the reminders.
I sincerely appreciate the concern, we all need remiders from time-to-time.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Have you driven a dog box on the street? I haven’t, but my Spyder has 2nd gear synchro issues and requires to be at high revs to shift without grinding. A dog box is basically that but in every gear? It just sucks to have to drive so aggressively all the time, especially if you end up in traffic or driving on very tight mountain roads.
Edit: Especially with so much HP on tap...
OK, I can't disagree. Power shifting at every shift change might get annoying after a while. Maybe I will opf for a different trans after a while, if I otherwise like the car. Thanks for explaining.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
The brakes are the least of the issues with this car. They are fine for all but dedicated track usage. The problem is that the dog box relegates the car to non-street usage. For drag and autocross the brakes are fine. For light track usage the brakes are ok. For dedicated track usage the brakes will need upgrading at some point but that is normal for a dedicated track car. It needs a new transmission for the street. It probably needs less horsepower for the street so that the new transmission does not grenade which will help reliability and be less prone to issues caused by the stock body work limit of 245s.

Question for the OP: is this intended to be a street car or a race car? If it is intended as a street car is it as a fun occasional car or as a daily driver?
Street car, occasional fun on nice sunny days. Probably run low 8 psi boost most of the time.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
I think we/me have given you some dubious advice. Not that the advice was/is bad but only not fully based on what needs to be known about the car. Gear X makes synchro and dog gearsets for the K series. The most import question to ask the seller is, which gear x kit is installed. If it is a synchro set I would suggest you but the car. If it is a dog box and you want to track the car then no problems. If it is a dog box and you want to daily drive it I would suggest negotiating with the seller. The dog box is $4k by itself so it is possible to maybe work something out.

Secondly, there has been talk about stock engines and reliability. I doubt that is the case. Very few people take the time to install arp head studs and not also put in pistons and rods. Ask what pistons and rods, what compression. It all matters.

Finally, if you do buy it. I really suggest turning down the boost from 19psi to as low as it will go for the first few weeks. Gradually work your way up as you gain confidence in the car. It is not about driving skill or machismo it is about knowing what you have and whether it works and is safe. You need to be able to hear/feel any suspension issues. Datalog and check the tune in real world driving situations. Slowly turn it up as the car proves reliable and steady. Do know, this is a serious piece if kit. It will suck a few thousand here and there as a matter of course. It is not a matter of budgeting for brakes. It is much more than that. Good luck I hope you buy it and have fun!
Good advice, thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Well, the Gear X gear kit is the one with Synchros, so that's good news.
The axles are from Insane Shafts, rated for 1000 HP, so that's good.
The tune was done by Kpro (cost $1000.) so that's probably at least an OK tune.
Car itself looks decent, paint is about an 8, no dings or dents, no rust, but 180k miles.

Think I'm probably gonna go for it. Seller wants 17k, I'll offer a bit less and see what happens. I'm probably gonna have to change suspension, brakes might be OK as is, will need to see if they do the job. Well, all comments and advice has been a big help. Feel free to offer any last --minute comments and advice.

I'll post what happens, thanks again.
 
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