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Discussion Starter #1
I've searched to no avail...

I had a coil pack go bad last weekend - thanks to Spyderchat I diagnosed and replaced it. Once I saw how easy the coils came off I figured I'd replace the plugs too since the car is new to me (still trying to find the 8 hours to do the air filter :rolleyes:).

Replaced coil with OEM and plugs with Bosch Platinum+4. I use these on everything I own now; no gapping, long life, etc.

I have NOTICEABLY less power and the tone of the engine changed - even the wife noticed the sound. Could the plugs make that much difference?

I won't have opportunity to swap the old (NGK Iridium) plugs back in until next week so I figured I'd ask the gurus. I appreciate any thoughts.
 

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I've searched to no avail...

I had a coil pack go bad last weekend - thanks to Spyderchat I diagnosed and replaced it. Once I saw how easy the coils came off I figured I'd replace the plugs too since the car is new to me (still trying to find the 8 hours to do the air filter :rolleyes:).

Replaced coil with OEM and plugs with Bosch Platinum+4. I use these on everything I own now; no gapping, long life, etc.

I have NOTICEABLY less power and the tone of the engine changed - even the wife noticed the sound. Could the plugs make that much difference?

I won't have opportunity to swap the old (NGK Iridium) plugs back in until next week so I figured I'd ask the gurus. I appreciate any thoughts.
are the new coils making full contact?
Are the plugs gapped correctly(just because they're new doesn't mean they are correct for our car)?
Are the plugs torqued down to the right amount?
 

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What's different about the sound?

Double check your install.

FWIW, those plugs are crap. Iridiums will have a longer life, and the 4 different side electrodes are a gimmick- the spark will only use the one that's closest to the center electrode. Even being crap, they shouldn't make the car run notably worse, although a google search shows people having all kinds of problems after installing them.
 

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long life stick with OEM plugs

more power get copper

Platinum plugs are kind of like mid octane gas
Good advice. Platinum plugs are the iridiums of the 90's. Great then, mediocre now.

Also, ANY sparkplug with multiple side electrodes is a gimmick. Save the money, get the single electrode.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I farkin love this place. Thanks for all the feedback.

I'll grab a set of coppers on the way home and make the time to install them. And then double check my install.

Thanks again.
 

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Sounds like . . .

you might have a plug installation problem. For the sound to change along with a power loss, I would first check to be sure that all the plugs are fully and properly installed. Any cross-threading will create both power and sound issues. Another possibility is that in the course of installing these new parts, you compromised something else that is letting engine noise escape the engine
 

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What's different about the sound?

Double check your install.

FWIW, those plugs are crap. Iridiums will have a longer life, and the 4 different side electrodes are a gimmick- the spark will only use the one that's closest to the center electrode. Even being crap, they shouldn't make the car run notably worse, although a google search shows people having all kinds of problems after installing them.
Those Bosh 4s are terrible on any car.
This just goes to prove that Platinum is worse the iridium.
 

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I farkin love this place. Thanks for all the feedback.

I'll grab a set of coppers on the way home and make the time to install them. And then double check my install.

Thanks again.
Coppers are great however make sure you replace them about ever 12k miles.
 

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Those Bosh 4s are terrible on any car.
This just goes to prove that Platinum is worse the iridium.
I've run plugs with multiple ground electrodes in many different cars for a lot of years with no problems. In my experience, they do well in most cars. The spark will always go from the center electrode to the ground electrode that is the closest. Over time that electrode will wear away. (as with all spark plugs) When this happens, the spark will just jump to the next closest one. On a regular plug this would be the time to regap the plug. All it really does is eliminate the need for as frequent regapping of the plug as on a plug with a single side ground electrode.

As for copper electrodes on spark plugs, copper has a very low melting point. We passed that threshold temperature wise about 40 years back in automotive technology. Were it not shielded or alloyed with something like iridium, it would burn away in no time. It is true that Iridium can withstand a little more heat than platinum. The emphasis in modern spark plug construction is not really on conductivity, such as copper has, but more on it's ability to withstand high temps.

I've personally seen no performance loss (or gain really) with a two or four ground electrode plug, as compaired to the old style single ground electrode, you just don't have to pull them and gap them.

I think the OP of this thread has some other problem.
 

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I think the OP of this thread has some other problem.
Yeah. My money's on either a loose connection, or a loose plug. Unless the gap is off by a crazy amount, just about any plug should make sufficient spark in 1ZZ.

Of copper, iridium and platinum, though, their conductivity is in that order. But geez, it's a mid-compression NA engine.
 

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Yeah. My money's on either a loose connection, or a loose plug. Unless the gap is off by a crazy amount, just about any plug should make sufficient spark in 1ZZ.

Of copper, iridium and platinum, though, their conductivity is in that order. But geez, it's a mid-compression NA engine.
Yeah, that's pretty much my thoughts too. As for the gap, there is no adjustment needed there on the plugs he put in it. That's providing that they weren't dropped four feet onto their nose. :lol:

Be nice if copper, iridium and platinum had a resistance to heat that matched their conductivity, unfortunately they don't.
 

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pure Pt and Ir have incredibly high melting temps.

due to the expense of these metals i doubt that spark plugs utilize these elements in their pure form
 

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I've run plugs with multiple ground electrodes in many different cars for a lot of years with no problems. In my experience, they do well in most cars. The spark will always go from the center electrode to the ground electrode that is the closest. Over time that electrode will wear away. (as with all spark plugs) When this happens, the spark will just jump to the next closest one. On a regular plug this would be the time to regap the plug. All it really does is eliminate the need for as frequent regapping of the plug as on a plug with a single side ground electrode.

As for copper electrodes on spark plugs, copper has a very low melting point. We passed that threshold temperature wise about 40 years back in automotive technology. Were it not shielded or alloyed with something like iridium, it would burn away in no time. It is true that Iridium can withstand a little more heat than platinum. The emphasis in modern spark plug construction is not really on conductivity, such as copper has, but more on it's ability to withstand high temps.

I've personally seen no performance loss (or gain really) with a two or four ground electrode plug, as compaired to the old style single ground electrode, you just don't have to pull them and gap them.

I think the OP of this thread has some other problem.
I can go on about my observations when switching to copper plugs and I can point to countless testimony from others that I have turned on to copper plugs but I'm not going to do that.

What I offer is a challenge instead and if you switch out your plugs to copper and don't observe a difference I will pay for you plugs.

A good friend of mine after purchasing a Ferrari 308 upgraded his plugs to Platinum and it misfired and backfired constantly. We performed a major service on the car and it helped but about a year later when I found out that copper plugs do make a difference I tried to convince him and I issued him the same challenge and the car started right up and those webers carbs sang a different tune.
 

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I can go on about my observations when switching to copper plugs and I can point to countless testimony from others that I have turned on to copper plugs but I'm not going to do that.

What I offer is a challenge instead and if you switch out your plugs to copper and don't observe a difference I will pay for you plugs.

A good friend of mine after purchasing a Ferrari 308 upgraded his plugs to Platinum and it misfired and backfired constantly. We performed a major service on the car and it helped but about a year later when I found out that copper plugs do make a difference I tried to convince him and I issued him the same challenge and the car started right up and those webers carbs sang a different tune.
What brand copper plugs are you running?
 

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What brand copper plugs are you running?
You will want BKR5E-11 .

Just do a search for copper plugs on this site and there will be a good number of people that will give testimony on the difference. You will not be any faster however the engine will feel peppy and sound nice.
 

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A good friend of mine after purchasing a Ferrari 308 upgraded his plugs to Platinum and it misfired and backfired constantly.
Was this the Bosch Platinum+4 plugs?

The reason that I ask is because if it wasn't, then that's equivalent of saying all copper plugs are the same and it doesn't matter which one of them you use either.

How do those copper plugs look after 12K miles? How much of the electrodes have been burned away? What is the gap?

My Spyder currently has the Bosch plugs in it. They've been in it about 25K miles now. The car has been on quite a few runs with other Spyders, performance is still great, and I have no problem keeping up with the other cars that are still in stock form. On the recent trip to Deal's Gap we drove it over 1700 miles, our average gas mileage was 33.8 with two of us in the car.

I don't really see anything broken that I need to fix. :unsure:
 

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You will want BKR5E-11 .
I just looked at NGK's web site. Did you notice they show this plug for 2000-2002, but show a slightly different number for '03 up?
 

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You will want BKR5E-11 .

Just do a search for copper plugs on this site and there will be a good number of people that will give testimony on the difference. You will not be any faster however the engine will feel peppy and sound nice.
+1 I have been running the copper NGK's you mentioned for years.There was a noticeable difference to me.I change mine every 10-12,000 miles and they still look new coming out.Changing plugs is easy and it's part of my springtime car maintenance.
 

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