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Not using a car leads to its own problems, stale fuel, old oil, rubber parts hardening/perishing, etc. A car that is used regularly and maintained as it should be avoids this.
We have seen plenty of instances on Boxa.net of people buying very low mileage cars that have needed immediate work and people buying high mileage cars that have been spot on as the previous owners have addressed any faults as they have arisen.

Any machine with moving parts likes, sorry benefits, from being used regularly as against sitting for long periods of time.
 

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Not using a car leads to its own problems, stale fuel, old oil, rubber parts hardening/perishing, etc. A car that is used regularly and maintained as it should be avoids this.
We have seen plenty of instances on Boxa.net of people buying very low mileage cars that have needed immediate work and people buying high mileage cars that have been spot on as the previous owners have addressed any faults as they have arisen.

Any machine with moving parts likes, sorry benefits, from being used regularly as against sitting for long periods of time.
I will concede that cars should be used, but that does not mean that things will not wear out as a result of heavy use. That said, no use is almost as bad. A few instances of old used high mileage cars running well is not indicative of any general trend. I think a lot of this is superstition and wishful thinking among those who buy cheap old cars and hope to get a few good miles out of them.
 

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I agree that no use is worse than regular use. Usage creates predictable maintenance patterns of wear. Non-use causes parts to be insufficiently lubricated due to gravity, corroded, etc...especially with ethanol fuels these issues can look fairly silent on the outside while really doing a number on components that would otherwise be fine.

Mechanical things were made to be just that, once they remain stationary for long periods of time, especially without proper storage procedures, all bets are off.
 

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I will concede that cars should be used, but that does not mean that things will not wear out as a result of heavy use. That said, no use is almost as bad. A few instances of old used high mileage cars running well is not indicative of any general trend. I think a lot of this is superstition and wishful thinking among those who buy cheap old cars and hope to get a few good miles out of them.
It is not a "few instances" it is wisdom gleaned from a forum that has been running for a very long time. :rolleyes:

I agree that no use is worse than regular use. Usage creates predictable maintenance patterns of wear. Non-use causes parts to be insufficiently lubricated due to gravity, corroded, etc...especially with ethanol fuels these issues can look fairly silent on the outside while really doing a number on components that would otherwise be fine.

Mechanical things were made to be just that, once they remain stationary for long periods of time, especially without proper storage procedures, all bets are off.
^This.^
 

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Great info, guys. So explain to me what are some of the things these cars need that Spyders don't. What are some things that you do to your Boxsters that you don't do to the Spyder.

I truley don't understand this. They have the same fluids and such. Do things just wear out? Can't you tell when they are worn or do you just do them because Porsche tells you to. What are you repairing?

All my research shows that Porsches cost a lot to maintain, but nobody goes into specifics. Are you guys doing the 40k maintanence at the dealership? And then the 60K and 100K? Is that what costs a lot?
 

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Don't know about Porsches specifically, but these are generally the ingredients of an expensive car:
1. Expensive parts.
2. Difficult access, which makes routine jobs labor intensive.
3. Nitty little problems, like leaks, that you have to fix over and over.
 

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The M96 and M97 engines just have very unreliable components and poor design in many ways. The rest of the car as far as I can tell is reasonably reliable, maybe with the exception of the soft top mechanism, and "user error" like people leaving the window down and the ECU getting soaked by rain.

It's not difficult to find the problems with the cars. You can go to LN Engineering for example and read up on it. The M96 and M97 engines have an open deck design with relatively thin cylinder walls and are cast high silicon alloy (weaker than normal aluminum). They can outright have a chunk break off, but more commonly the bores eventually get oval enough for the oil consumption to make an early 1ZZ blush. There are not a lot of these engines that survive into the high 100k mile range.

The water pumps are known for failure and are recommended to be replaced every few years. The chain guides on 5-chain engines wore quickly, I don't know if they ever fixed that problem in the later engines. Spark plugs are much more involved than your usual engine since they're not accessible from the top (Subarus also have this issue though). Oil starvation, AOS failure, and rod bearing failure are common on tracked cars, because they put scavenge pumps at opposite corners in the heads, so I think left turns with a forward negative acceleration component will pool oil where there is no scavenge pump. The AOS is just bad, you have to pony up 4 digits for the "Porsche Motorsports" upgrade, or figure out how to tuck an aftermarket catch can or AOS in as a custom job. Apparently, hydraulic lash adjuster failure is somewhat common. The crankshafts are not very strong and will snap without a dual mass flywheel or damped crank pulley.

A rebuild is going to run you at least 10k.

Pretty much all those problems were solved on the later cars, so you don't need to budget huge amounts of money for repairs generally speaking. That's why 987.2s get snapped up so quickly when they hit the market. On a 987.2, compared to a MR2 Spyder you're just looking at more expensive tires, brakes, and oil (10 quarts!), and getting kind of shafted when you eventually do less frequent service items like coolant, transmission fluid, spark plugs, etc. since the Porsche fluids are special and expensive. I think if you do the easier work yourself or have a good priced mechanic, it's easy to stay under 1k/year in service cost. The parts are more money than most cars, but mostly not outrageous because there are a lot of Porsches and they share parts.

Once you move to the 981 and up generations, I think it gets a little more expensive because there is a bunch of computer stuff that you're supposed to have a dealer (or indie with the equipment) set when they do mundane things like batteries. Or, you could just ignore the error messages that pop up on the screen to save money lol.
 

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There are not a lot of these engines that survive into the high 100k mile range.

Plenty of high mileage examples about, including one I know of around the 200,000 mark.

The water pumps are known for failure and are recommended to be replaced every few years.

Heard of one failure in 3 years on the forum, never seen anyone saying they need replaced every few years.

The chain guides on 5-chain engines wore quickly

Again, not aware of this being a specific problem.

Spark plugs are much more involved than your usual engine since they're not accessible from the top

Plenty of people doing this themselves, yes access can be a tad awkward but it is far from impossible.

Oil starvation, AOS failure, and rod bearing failure are common on tracked cars, because they put scavenge pumps at opposite corners in the heads, so I think left turns with a forward negative acceleration component will pool oil where there is no scavenge pump. The AOS is just bad, you have to pony up 4 digits for the "Porsche Motorsports" upgrade, or figure out how to tuck an aftermarket catch can or AOS in as a custom job. Apparently, hydraulic lash adjuster failure is somewhat common. The crankshafts are not very strong and will snap without a dual mass flywheel or damped crank pulley.

Again, this is not something that comes up with those that track their cars.

A rebuild is going to run you at least 10k.

Probably, though again depends on how handy you are with a wrench or which garage you use.
Anyone seriously thinking of buying a Boxster should join Boxa.net or an equivalent in the states and doo some research.
 
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Ok, Thanks @serialk11r . Good info. So we are looking at 2006+ boxsters for most of those reasons. I have read many places that these cars are pretty bullet proof.

So is there any special maintenance that has to be done on these cars that does not have to be done on a Spyder? Is there some kind of widget that needs to be changed every 20k or 10k that I don't know about? What makes these cars so fragile?

And @nelix I will join Boxa.net. Are you in the states?
 

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Ok, Thanks @serialk11r . Good info. So we are looking at 2006+ boxsters for most of those reasons. I have read many places that these cars are pretty bullet proof.

So is there any special maintenance that has to be done on these cars that does not have to be done on a Spyder? Is there some kind of widget that needs to be changed every 20k or 10k that I don't know about? What makes these cars so fragile?

And @nelix I will join Boxa.net. Are you in the states?
Hi Mark no, Scotland in the UK. I'm Scubaregs on Boxa.net, say hi if you join.
 

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I had the MR2 for 11 years, no real problems. I bought an '09 Cayman S, 987.2. While I only had the car for 3 years, I did about 8 track days in it and it was reliable. I went through a set of tires and a set of brake pads and rotors, but I was able to do all the work on it myself. Not too terrible. Parts prices were more than the MR2, obviously, but not too bad to buy aftermarket stuff and avoid the dealer prices. I've got a Focus RS now, done 4 track days and it's going to need tires and brakes pretty soon. I bet I could get more for my 987.2 now than when I sold it in 2016. They aren't going down in value, that's for sure. Still think I'd prefer to have my MR2 back as everything else just feels heavy. It's a shame the 2zz wasn't the stock motor, I might still have it. I old enough now where I don't need to win the HP game any longer. A tossable car is more fun than just stomping on the loud pedal.
 

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I can say that if you're comparing the 1st gen base Boxster to the MR2 Spyder. The Spyder wins hands down. It's not even a question (unless you really need storage space).

You can replace the entire engine in the Spyder for what one or two major services cost for the Boxster. The performance difference is negligible. 0-60mph; Boxster with the upgraded 2.7 liter engine 6.5 seconds; Spyder 6.8 seconds. Don't forget the MR2 Spyder does this on regular gasoline.

I have never owned a Porsche but I have owned Subarus and working on a flat engine is a PITA. My daily is a 2019 Audi A4 Allroad and all though I haven't had any issues, I can tell you about the bills I have overheard at the service center for other German cars.

I should also mention that my insurance with full coverage is only $30 a month for the Spyder. I'm unmarried man in my 30s with a clean driving record, your results may vary.
 

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Using up lots of $$ or very few $$.
My Boxter was quite reliable and affordable. Better aftermarket support too. That being said the Spyder is WAY easier to work on. For some reason I feel the Toyota interior is more roomy. It's not but it feels that way to me.
 

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The spyder has more wheelbase than a 1st generation Boxster, and I think that it is still comparable to the later ones. Putting the wheels at the corners may look odd, but it makes for a real handling advantage.
 

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Again, the Porsche is in another league of sophistication of design. Although the McStruts are perfectly ok, the Boxster suspension is a serious step of wheel control up.
Same thing the engine.
The in mý opinion crux is the fun bit.
Take a step to the side and look at Toyota fitting Eco rubber to the GT86. The result was easily obtained fun at moderate speeds.
Same thing the Boxster. The things are heavier, more powerful with better road holding. To get the same thrill factor the Porsche needs be driven faster.
For mý use that asks for a caveat as the roads I want to enjoy simply do not allow for Boxster speed/power/limits. I cán flog my little ZZW30 up, over and down the mountain passes here but I would scare myself going just as quickly with more risk in a Boxster.
That I tried, tested before buying the MR2.

The Boxster are indisputable, incomparably bétter cars and as the model develops increasingly so. Increasingly beyond mere mortals on real world roads. Hence they shift to the comfort side of things with more and more gadgets adding weight; píng!
The later models can be dubbed a grand tourer, the MR2 .... not.
Pick your choice.

Oh and luggage space? Really?! Get a hot hatch. Great fun too. 300 hp and easy maintenance even. The latest crops leave the MR2 waywáy behind on a track.
 

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Again, the Porsche is in another league of sophistication of design. Although the McStruts are perfectly ok, the Boxster suspension is a serious step of wheel control up.
Same thing the engine.
The in mý opinion crux is the fun bit.
Take a step to the side and look at Toyota fitting Eco rubber to the GT86. The result was easily obtained fun at moderate speeds.
Same thing the Boxster. The things are heavier, more powerful with better road holding. To get the same thrill factor the Porsche needs be driven faster.
For mý use that asks for a caveat as the roads I want to enjoy simply do not allow for Boxster speed/power/limits. I cán flog my little ZZW30 up, over and down the mountain passes here but I would scare myself going just as quickly with more risk in a Boxster.
That I tried, tested before buying the MR2.

The Boxster are indisputable, incomparably bétter cars and as the model develops increasingly so. Increasingly beyond mere mortals on real world roads. Hence they shift to the comfort side of things with more and more gadgets adding weight; píng!
The later models can be dubbed a grand tourer, the MR2 .... not.
Pick your choice.

Oh and luggage space? Really?! Get a hot hatch. Great fun too. 300 hp and easy maintenance even. The latest crops leave the MR2 waywáy behind on a track.
To say the Boxster is indisputably better is an overstatement if I've ever heard one. If you're talking about the 1st gen Boxster S or any Boxster after the first gen 986 then you're absolutely right. However, you will pay for that performance. When talking about the base 986 you are definitely overreaching. Check out the lap times:
The times are incredibly close considering the 986 cost nearly double the price at the time. On a tight technical track like Tsukuba the ZZW30 is faster.

When it comes to interiors on 20+ year old cars, who really cares. As long as the seats are comfortable and instruments are easy to use that's all that matters.
 

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As long as the seats are comfortable and instruments are easy to use that's all that matters.
Highly subjective. Both the verdict and the priority.
I have stripped the interior, fitted had shell buckets in my pfl. Comfy enough for me and lóve the extra space.
Totally personal though.

Objectively, from an engineering p.o.v. the Boxter ís a better, superior spec design, car.
Yet I bought the MR2 for mý mountain road use. The higher weight and excess power make ány Boxster way more difficult to drive as quick hére.
Still, my Spyder being better fit for mý purpose does not make it a better car.
 

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I also own a 982 "718" Cayman S. it is superior to my 2ZZ swapped 05 in every way except price, and the MR2 feels slightly more nimble. That being said it is a different car experience.
 
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