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Discussion Starter #1
I am contemplating buying someone's project. While it includes a good starton a fairly potent engine (think 300-500rwhp depending on turbo and tune) I amconcerned about the stock tranny. I know that MWR and others say that the cseries tranny will die with high hp builds, but I have been unable to findposts on any of the lotus, celica or mr2 boards where anyone says what thatnumber is.
At what WHP would I need to consider blowing the extra money on an e-series tranny? This will greatly influence whether I add this MKIII to my fleet.
If the stock tranny will not reliably tolerate 300rwhp, then this guy hasway overbuilt the engine and I need to look at selling off the motor or notbuying the car.
If this is answered in a thread, please just post a link. I don't need to rehash old news, I just would like some help finding the information, which I think is out there.

 

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It is in a thread, I think even a sticky somewhere. I have heard stock tranny can hold around 260hp reliably (this may be for the 6 spd, 5 spd maybe a little more), after that they will start to shear 3rd gear from what I have read.
 

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4rftgvb
 

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Depends on a lot of things. I assume it has an LSD, will it be launched like a drag racer? Will it be babied when starting out? Would you be willing to swap in a trans from a turbo MKII Mr2? There is a kit to do that and those have handled up to 800-900 whp with improved axles.

Then again the stock 6 speed has failed on Celica's with a NA 2zz. I have 320 + rwhp and just over 200 ft/lbs RWTQ, and don't launch hard nor drag race, and it has lasted 60,000+ miles no problems. It all is like adult diapers, it depends.

For drag racing and well over 300 whp I would go with the turbo MKII trans. But there are Celicas with over 400 hp and drag race that use the c60 trans, but tend to replace them often. As I said it depends. The MLII trans is nearly bullet proof at the power level;s you are talking, and there are kits for the swap you can buy, along with new trans.
Cool! I may need to look into the MKII trans swap. Do you have any links for the kit?
 

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i don't drag race or do hard launches but i do have a C-60 w/lsd and have had 267whp[ for a brief while 316whp. 282.11 ft.lbs torque] 260 ft.lbs torque for a round 3 yrs... no problems.
 

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It's not really and HP limit but a TQ limit, the c60 and c56 seem to grenade at about 250tq. I'm not too sure but I think monkey wrench has an e153 swap kit
 

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I have not had a problem with power. None of the transmissions have grenaded. They have all died from heat.

I have run several turbo spyder on and off the track. The failures have always been input or output shaft bearing failure and/or synchros from fast shifting. The c series transmissions do not have an oil cooler.

The MKII transmissions have an internal oil cooler, part of the reason why they last longer.

I have never seen a 300whp 1zz engine live long enough to break the transmission. The engine usually breaks before the transmission.:(
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yes MWR has a E-series tranny kit.
I agree about a ppost or sticky. I thought a HP number guess was listed somewhere, but could not find it.
250 torque sounds like a pretty safe guess considering how much of a variable weight of car, tire selection, lsd, launch style, track usage etc introduce into the equation.
It sounds like my real problem would be heat, since the car would be a track vehicle/time attack/hill climb racer, even if I babied the launch. Also if 3rd gear is weak, that is not normally the launch, but the hard high rpm shift underway, which is a feature of hard driving, not hard launching.
While the car's price and condition make it attractive it keeps sounding like a bad idea for what I want in the end.
Thanks!
 

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Power limit how about top speed limit. With 250hp on my previous engine it got to 110 very fast. But ehhhh 118-125 was as high as it would go. Any faster then that there was no straight long enough. I highly doubt the trans would take much more power either.
 

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I have hit 135+mph with the stock 5-speed and a turbo 1zz with 230whp with big tires on a track. I think the fastest was 141mph on the front straight of auto club speedway. The car does slow in 5th gear because its too tall. The celica/lotus 6-speed has much better gearing for accerelation.

That 5-speed transmission never broke even with numerous 100 degree weather track days and 30k street miles. I sold the car and as fast as I know it is still running. That transmission did not have an LSD which is probably why it's still alive.
 

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I have never seen a 300whp 1zz engine live long enough to break the transmission. The engine usually breaks before the transmission.:(
Quoted for truth:) I'm suprised it took 8 posts to get to this salient point:)
 

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Quoted for truth:) I'm suprised it took 8 posts to get to this salient point:)
this isn't true at all. people who go past 300whp usually drag their car and this forum isn't welcoming to drag experiences or results.

usually the stock tranny will hold up to 280-=lbs of torque whatever hp you have that reaches that tq will be enough to leave 3rd toothless after a while. still it's not immediate.

last tranny on the car was there for 2 years with 393whp. even saw some 400+whp days... never broke but we were soft on third. wheelhop needs to be avoided for obvious reasonsbut usually stock axels are broken not the tranny. another spyder here visited the track constantly doing a best et of [email protected] on street tires with aprox 375whp. it had 260 tq.. never has broken a tranny. I broke 2 long ago. 6sp are much weaker.

they can hold up hard launches with no problems. 1.6-1.7 60ft on street tires. slicks are more forgiving to axels as they help prevent wheelhop.
 

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I have 340whp in my build 1zz, the engine and trans has lasted two years now, I was thinking about changing to the mr2 mkII trans for better relibuility, I think I was alot of luck that made my trans hold togheter those years, If I did not change my build engine for a honda K20 I would go with the MR2 MKII trans without even blink :p

stay on the save side and buy the E153 !
 

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I was on a stock 5 speed boosting 14lbs on a GT28. My output shaft bearing was going bad but it was an XD ACT 6 Puck Unpsprung that was my culprit. I had 120k on it and 20k of it boosted when I yanked the transaxle it had grenaded itself.

I upgraded to a fresh C63 Euro 6 speeds. As far as I know they don't have the common output shaft bearing issue and I hope it lasts.
 

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this isn't true at all. people who go past 300whp usually drag their car and this forum isn't welcoming to drag experiences or results.

usually the stock tranny will hold up to 280-=lbs of torque whatever hp you have that reaches that tq will be enough to leave 3rd toothless after a while. still it's not immediate.

last tranny on the car was there for 2 years with 393whp. even saw some 400+whp days... never broke but we were soft on third. wheelhop needs to be avoided for obvious reasonsbut usually stock axels are broken not the tranny. another spyder here visited the track constantly doing a best et of [email protected] on street tires with aprox 375whp. it had 260 tq.. never has broken a tranny. I broke 2 long ago. 6sp are much weaker.

they can hold up hard launches with no problems. 1.6-1.7 60ft on street tires. slicks are more forgiving to axels as they help prevent wheelhop.
Ummm... Directly below your post raving about the bombproof 1ZZ turbo, is your very own signiture saying that you are back with a new NA 2ZZ setup:lol:... that's irony...
 

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double post, sorry
 
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