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Since this two bung, two o2 sensor fix seems to work quite well, I am surprised PPE doesn't just adopt it. It may not be a "perfect" reproduction of the stock precat set-up, but it is sure closer than their single o2 sensor two miles downstream!
Are the PPE headers the best set up, or are the obx, modded the same, as good?
I really hate having to modify a brand new part to make it work correctly.
 

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Since this two bung, two o2 sensor fix seems to work quite well, I am surprised PPE doesn't just adopt it. It may not be a "perfect" reproduction of the stock precat set-up, but it is sure closer than their single o2 sensor two miles downstream!
Are the PPE headers the best set up, or are the obx, modded the same, as good?
I really hate having to modify a brand new part to make it work correctly.
PPE quality and R&D > OBX. With that said, the obx makes about the same power according to my tests of the obx and the claimed numbers from PPE. Do a little searching, there are threads on all of this.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Crossing 185k, expecting 200k by next year!
 

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Is the 90 degree extension necessary for the single O2 sensor further down stream? Will the CEL still come on if this isn't added or was it added to further simulate the stock setup? Is this a part that can be bought from an exhaust shop? Same question about the additional bungs, can they usually be found at an exhaust shop? I have an OBX with a high flow cat on an 03 mr2 with a mostly stock 1zz. Any info would help, i just want me car to be back to normal. Thanks.
 

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90 deg extension was added on the post cat sensor position.. to fool the ECU in to thinking a Cat is actually on his car..

You will just need bungs on the Cylinder closest to the Belts ( #1 ) and the next one to it ( #2 )

If you use 'Post Cat Sensors' (B1S2) for the Header O2's.. the wires will not need to be extended..

Muffler Shops usually have the O2 Sensor Bungs..

If your Car is all Screwed Up and not very drivable..

1) Unplug the TWO main O2 Sensors
2) Disconnect the Battery for 10 Minutes
3) Reconnect the Battery, and LEAVE THE O2 SNSORS UNPLUGED
4) Drive the car..

This will force the Fuling to base Fueling.. and wih the O2 Sensors Unplugged, the Crostalk between the Sensors will not re-screw up the Fueling..

Don't push the car hard.. as we have no clue as to what the fueling is like

Cap
 

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I had new bungs welded in, lower than where they were (about as low as I could put them in there), and the car is running a little better, but not back to normal.

A little back round, I installed the OBX header/mid pipe and everything was fine for about two weeks/~1000 miles, then one day when i started it I could hear it missing and it didn't sound right, then the CEL came on and it would run bad until it was fully warmed up, then it would feel normal. When i say it would "run bad" i mean it would miss a lot at lower RPM, but feel ok at higher rpm.

So I had new bungs welded in and bought a downstream O2 sensor to use as the pass. side sensor, disconnected the batt for a few hours, reconnected the batt, started it up and it was still missing, but didn't sound as bad as before. I let it idle for ~20 minutes, then drove it around and it felt a lot better, not missing and felt like it had more power, but still obviously not back to normal.

So my questions are . . .

1. How long should it take the ECU to "relearn"? (Is two weeks/~1000 miles normal?)

2. Since I have high flow cat installed on the mid pipe do I need to use the extension for the downstream O2 sensor?

3. Will the CEL clear itself when the ECU has "relearned" the new set up or do I still need to disconnect the batt. and if so how do I know when the right time to disconnect it is?

Both.jpg Drivers Side.jpg Pass Side.jpg

Any input would be helpful, like i said before, i just want to get my car back to normal.
 

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300, 302, and 304.

I checked when it first started happening and was getting a few of the misfire codes, i forgot which exactly.

I checked the codes this morning, and it was 300, 302, and 304. This was about two and a half hours after i turned it off (after an hour commute). I then cleared the codes then drove it around the parking lot and the CEL did not come back on. I drove it around at lunch and i felt it misfire a little bit, but the CEL never came on. Maybe its "learning"?
 

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300, 302, and 304.

I checked when it first started happening and was getting a few of the misfire codes, i forgot which exactly.

I checked the codes this morning, and it was 300, 302, and 304. This was about two and a half hours after i turned it off (after an hour commute). I then cleared the codes then drove it around the parking lot and the CEL did not come back on. I drove it around at lunch and i felt it misfire a little bit, but the CEL never came on. Maybe its "learning"?
Whens the last time you changed your plugs?
 

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The Pipe on the side closest to the belts is Number one Pipe.. Is the Bung in that pipe, and the O2 sensor for that pipe plugged into the O2 sensor plug on that Side?..

The Next pipe over is Number TWO.. is the O2 Sensor Bung welded into that pipe, and is the O2 Sensor for that pipe plugged into the O2 Sensor plug between the head and the Tranny?..

IF you have an Aftermarket Intake, the Mixture will naturally be lean.. it will take a few drive cycles to get it all 'Learned'.. 30 miles maybe.

If you disconnect the battery for 10 Minutes.. it will go back to Factory Fueling.. then relearn from there..

The Cell will clear itself, after 3 Drive Cycles that the code does not re-occur..

Cap
 

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Jason: I've never changed them (i've had the car for almost a year and it has ~90k), i did just buy some a week ago, along with a valve cover gasket, and sent out yellow 2zz injectors to get cleaned so I could install the MAF mod. I haven't installed them yet because I was planning to do it all at the same time. I'm aware that spark plugs can cause misfires, but could a symptom of a bad plug be misfires when the engine isn't warmed up, but when it is there doesn't seem to be an issue? I used to have a 92' Turbo two and when the plugs would start going bad it would run poorly all the time, not just when cold, but that was also plugs, caps, and rotor.

Cap: Yes, i have bungs welded into the pipes that come from cylinder one and two. The O2 sensor that is installed in the pipe from cylinder one is plugged into the plug on the front of the engine. The O2 sensor installed in the pipe coming from cylinder two is plugged into the plug between the head and tranny. I have a K&N drop in filter that has been installed for a while, I assume that wont change things much. It sounds like by what you're saying that my car should have relearned by now. It has been over 300 miles and probably at least 10 warm up cycles by now.

Now i'm starting to get paranoid that it something else and I was just assuming it was the header causing my issue, but . . . Why would it take 2 weeks/~1000 miles/~25-30 warm up cycles for me to start having issues after installing the header? Is it common for an O2 sensor, or any other sensor for that matter, to get damaged after installing a header? Does everyone who is getting CEL from OBX and PPE headers who have not done any other mods to the header or O2 wiring harness have the same symptoms i'm having(runs rough/misses when cold, but after it warms up seems pretty normal)? Even though I have a High flow cat installed in the mid pipe, could I maybe need one of those O2 sensors extension pieces the OP was using? Thank you guys for helping me, i know I'm asking a lot of questions, but hopefully it will help me and others.
 

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I'd change the plugs since it is only getting a code on three of the four cylinders. Moving the bungs on the O2 sensors was a waste IMO. Plugs are cheap and easy to change.
 

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Likely if you got 1K mile out the OBX with no issues, that is not the problem here..

I got 275 K miles out of my first set of plugs.. re-gaped twice.. Pull them and see

If you are having a misfire.. on more than one plug..

I'm thinking MAF needs cleaning, or the Header has air leaks at the Head, causing False Reading to the O2 Sensor..

If you have Stock Air Box.. the way to eliminate the O2 Sensor issue, is to Pull the Electrics on the O2 Sensor ( two plugs ).. disconnect the battery for 10 minutes.. Reconnect only the battery, and take it for a drive..

If you still have the Stumble, it not an O2 Sensor Issue.. as the Fueling should be really close to perfect on Base Fueling..

Another thing it can be, is the TPS.. if it is getting an erratic sig, then it will mess with the fueling.. Just pull the plug on the TPS and take it for a drive ( after reconnecting the O2 Sensors ).. the car should be a little 'Thin' on acceleration, but cruising steady state running should be good..

Edit:.. yes the O2 sensors can get hurt by moving them around.. but it's the heater that gives up.. not the actual O2 Sensor.. so I'm thinking your good there

That is all I got.

Cap
 

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I disconnected the battery for over 10 minutes and unplugged both upstream O2 sensors, started it, and right away i could tell it wasn't idling smoothly, it would have a slight miss, i drove it around for a few minutes just to confirm, and it was basically the same symptoms as before (missing at low RPM). I plugged both O2 sensors back in, then unplugged what i assume is the TPS (it was a rear facing connector on the throttle body), and nothing changed (missing at low RPM). That's about all I can do at the moment, but it seems like from what you've told me and what i've read, this isn't an O2 sensor problem. I will try the other things you guys mentioned, like plugs and MAF cleaning, if that doesn't help i'll look to into the injectors and coil packs. Hopefully i'll find something. If I still have issues, i'll start a new thread, i apologize for hijacking this one. Thank you Jason and Cap for your info!!


Update: it was a bad coil pack, I replaced all of them and she's back to normal now.
 

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GOODEVENING everyone! im from Greece and im trying also to find a solusion about my check engine light beacose of my exhaust!
im not quite sure if it's a PPE or TTE......
anyway apologise me i do not understunt all these you wrote about, i will keep it it simple for me to understund.....
thanx in advance for the help/any help...

(i hope not to get banned for this threat as a noobie....):concern:

check engine


exhaust


AND a MAF wich is converted for this job as a friend of mine recomended to change....


It's the 1ZZ engine (original) 2002 model with only a K/N filter and the exhaust.
I'm not having a picture of my cables With the sensors.... but it's the 1st diagram that i follow as Cap Weir has writed on top! 'Additional Bungs' method, with a thermostat connected!

Something like that....


Am i in a good way to solve the problem??
Which is my next move?
:confused:
 

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What seems to work is following the OEM setup. Combining sensor wiring to use one sensor sometimes fails. Adding two more sensors would add cost and time and not be what the ECU is expecting. IMHO replicating OEM is the best and easiest solution although the PPE header doesn't allow for combined cylinder measurements.
 

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What Levi said in post #10 is the best and closest to factory spec there is that works. Put in both O2 sensors, on the runners or collector, so both heater wires work independently, meaning do not cut them. Take the blue wire from one O2 sensor, cut it, and splice it into the other uncut wire. Take the white wire from the same O2 sensor, cut it and splice it to the other also uncut wire.

Alternatively you can leave the 2 sensors as is in the engine bay and cut at the engine harness. At the ECU, C12 E4 is the O2 Sensor Lead for Bank 1 Sensor 1 and C21 E4 is the O2 Sensor Lead for Bank 2 Sensor 1. Cut one lead, tape off or put a wire nut on the end at the harness and with the lead at the ECU splice into the other intact signal wire. This is what has worked for more than a decade on the Power Enterprise kit bc they placed their O2 sensors inline and the signal did not make the ECU happy causing misfires.

This is a diagram PPE sent me many years ago via e-mail. And for anyone not running a cat, just run a bung extender or those L shaped extenders, whatever it takes to move the O2 sensor far away from exhaust flow.

 

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Just wondering would this mod need to be done on a car running a PFC? Will i be able to tune that using just the bung setup out of the box or would I have to weld in new bungs like for the OEM ecu to properly map the fuel?
 

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Just wondering would this mod need to be done on a car running a PFC? Will i be able to tune that using just the bung setup out of the box or would I have to weld in new bungs like for the OEM ecu to properly map the fuel?
This is a very good question. I'd like to know the answer, too. Maybe the PFC for 1zz can be set to run off just one O2 sensor. Maybe not.
 
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