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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
edit: SSM build - I recently started a thread for my SSM build, not including the power related stuff here: Rocwandrer's-Low-Budget-SSM-Build

Analysis Paralysis - That's how I'm referring to this particular project. According to google's forever mail history, I first mentioned it in March of 2006. I finally committed to the build just before I smashed my leg into a good facsimile of a rubber chicken back in April. Thanks to Andrew, Justin, Zach, and Nate for helping me keep it going during my ongoing recovery. And my wife for putting up with the project spilling out of the garage and into the driveway. And into the living room. And into the kitchen...

It isn't anywhere near done yet, but I'm well under way and figured I should probably start a build thread here. I love the car for STR, but I need to keep the car moving forward as a project, and the stuff left to do in STR doesn't tickle my giggle nerve enough to overcome the bang for buck level of those changes, so I decided to hell with competitiveness, I'll just build something cool and see where it leads. Part of me really wants a nearly stock spyder for the street, and a gutted SSM car for autocross. I can port the parts over if I go that route and make this one the street car.

The build in brief:

EFR 6258 - from what I've seen so far, this was an excellent call compared to the GT2560 and GT2860 turbos I had in my garage at the start of the project. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm one of the first people to put one of these on a spyder. I was really skeptical, but I'm all but sold based on assuming response will improve when I hook up the EBC. Thanks to TurboKits.com for going above and beyond to get it out to me on my orignal timeline. It wasn't intended to be artificial pressure. I blew like $300 on expedited shipping to have parts here for times when people said they'd spend a day helping me, and mostly never showed.

Wastegate actuator - I bought the expensive low pressure wastegate actuator before finding out that it is a standard mount configuration and inexpensive functional non-EFR branded ones work just fine. Set to 2.5 turns of preload with no MBC or EBC, it makes about 3 psi at 2200 RPM, 6 psi at about 2800, and 6.8 psi around redline. 2.5 turns of preload implies the wastegate starts opening somewhere around 3 psi, so EBC (in progress) should make some serious gains. From their charts and configuration java program, I was worried it wouldn't be capable of being set this low.

I expect, with MBC, I'll have 8 psi at 2600 rpm. Right now on wastegate only and with a poor tune the boost response at 3500 rpm is about the same as it was on my tuned EBC controlled 1.8 miata with a gt2560 at 5500 rpm :thumbsup::clap::evillaugh:



700 cc/min Deatschwerks injectors - plug and play, tons of headroom; flow matched well; really really high latency at 1.3ms though, which I didn't realize when I picked them out.

E-Manage Ultimate piggyback - [4/15/14 - switched to Apexi Power PC] I am struggling with this. I want more features in a standalone than the PFC has, but I can't afford that even. I feel like MAP3ECU might have been a better choice (support for digital dash, more input output channels, manuals in english and naming conventions that make sense, etc). EMU seemed much better explored on this engine, and it was a lot less expensive.



PLX Devices wideband - the history graph view in the center with simulated analog gauge around the outside is VERY helpful. The narrow band output actually works. Totally worth the $60 over an AEM and the fact that it doesn't match.

Center cubby gauge pod - $ 30 glowshift universal pod, slightly modified with my pocket knife and a belt sander. Visor section isn't quite long enough, but it matches reasonably well. I really wish I hadn't done my layout marks with sharpie. It won't come off :( I want more gauges, but I don't want gauges on the pillar, or really far off axis, so I guess I'm waiting until I can afford a digital dash type setup. Other suggestions?



Stewart Warner 0-15 PSI 270 sweep mechanical boost gauge - I like that it matches the stock gauges really well. Bought it specifically for the 0-15 psi, 270 degree sweep analog because that way the difference between 9 psi and 11 psi is obvious at a quick glance and so on. I hate that those -30 inhg through 30 psi gauges have so little usable sweep. 1/16" difference between 5 psi and 15 psi at arms length away makes them pretty useless, IMO. Turns out I really miss having a vacuum gauge for tuning though (tuning is through the datalog, but knowing where to look to make changes and knowing what is going on in the moment is really valuable). Really annoying hearing the turbo spool at 2200 rpm and 1/4 throttle, and not knowing how much vacuum reduction I have.

ProSport dual IAT intercooler gauge - Yeah, I know, also doesn't match. Form follows function? Might black out the bezel. Not hooked up yet. If you want one, they are half price new on ebay right now, but they don't come with temperature sensors for that price. I complained that they didn't say that in the listing, and they sent me the sensors too. I checked this out and found a water temperature sender application that matches for resistance vs temperature curve, so the eventual plan is to have one display read downstream IAT and the other read intercooler water temp.

Warning lights - The ones in the picture suck. I bought some brighter ones which haven't arrived yet [edit, which are really a lot better, superbrightLEDs.com ftw].

Oil Pressure - Plan is for a sunlight visible narrow angle red LED flashing oil pressure light. The sender is adjustable, it comes set for on below 15 psi and off above 50 psi. I plan to have it aimed at my face, or ideally slightly off axis if it is bright enough. More info later.

Oil temp - Adjustable, comes set for on at 275F and off at 245F.

Intercooler pump status -

Intercooler fan status -

Knock light -

Switched controls - plan for intercooler fan and pump manual override controls above the warning lights, maybe an external switch input for the EMU.

MAF & boost mapped water injection - Not enough engine bay room for everything I want, the way I want it. This might be for sale simply because I am committed to blow through MAF, and need a bunch of straight pipe upstream from the sensor, and need the water injection between the MAF and the TB.

Water to air intercooling - 90 degree inlet/outlet 9x4x3.5" core intercooler sitting directly on top of the turbo. Insulated (fiberglass with radiation shielding). 11x11x1.5 FMHEX, Jabsco 29 gpm (open flow rating) pump, 3/4 lines, surge tank with no reservoir. Want to convert to 1" lines, because the lines have more pressure drop than the intercooler or heat exchanger. Anyone know of a cheap source for decent quality 1" heater hose or equivalent? I might go with copper line under the car to try to dump some heat there too.

Exhaust - 3" mandrel bent 409 stainless exhaust with v-bands (2 temporary band clamps for fit-up, but they don't leak so I might just keep using them and sell the V-bands), 5" body 100cpi cat, and 7 lb Borla straight through muffler. My one compromise for "bling" over cost is the polished stainless oval tip. I picked it based on being as close to matching the stock tip as I could find in a 3" inlet stainless part. Exhaust uses 2 of the stock mounts. This not as loud as I thought it would be wide open, and way louder than I thought it would be at cruising load. Not much space left under there, but any ideas for a good way to kill the drone? Maybe I'll set it up with a quick release tip section if I can find something that kills the drone, and run the quiet pipe on long trips (75% of my driving is 140+ miles to an autocross event).







Dryflow filter location/size is temporary. The original filter I bought is slightly too large to fit anywhere reasonable.



Questions, comments, and constructive criticism welcome!
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Part 2:

Drivetrain:


Transmission - Brand new 4.312:1 ratio 5 speed, Toyota Helical LSD, Corolla 5th gear swap

Clutch - Competition Clutch ST2 (from MikeV, thanks Mike!)

TO Bearing - OEM from Toyota (old one was TRASHED at only 70k miles with life left on the original disc)

Flywheel - Competition Clutch STU - 8.8 lb (from MikeV, thanks Mike!)

Flywheel bolts - ARP kit from MWR with loctite on threads and ARP grease on underside of heads, excess grease removed after torquing

Clutch line - Stainless braided teflon core, original 10 year old line looked like brand new, and given the subtle different brake lines make at much higher pressure, this was probably a waste of money, but it was cheap (never installed)

Slave cyl - new from Toyota (came with the trans)

Starter - looked like brand new, so kept original

Engine mounts - sold Kirks, bought speed source and installed front and rear

Engine damper - hydraulic damper project started

more to come......
 

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I think you should keep your plastic valve cover garnish/protector on, it prevents rain from getting in the spark plug holes.
 

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Anti-surge housing on that small of a turbo? I'm liking this setup, makes me want to say screw it and boost my car lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Anti-surge housing on that small of a turbo? I'm liking this setup, makes me want to say screw it and boost my car lol.

Yeah. Funny, it really isn't that small, which is part of why I hesitated to buy it (the other part mostly being no first hand experience and they cost like half my original build budget). It is about the same size as the turbo on my brother-in-law's 6.5L diesel, if not a little bigger. Seriously like twice as big as a GT2560 by critical dimensions. But the guts are lighter, and that's the big deal part.

No BOV needed as it has a hybrid of anti-surge with a tiny recirc built in. [edit: just saw what you saw - The anti-surge in the picture is not what the production 6258 has, not sure how that happened...] Built in boost control solenoid. Setup for a speed sensor from the factory. At the Maine Forest Rally, there were "factory" teams running this exact same turbo, saying they found it tolerated anti-lag better than any other. The Miata guys say it spools like a GT2560 and makes top end power like a GT2871 or so. I won't know about the making power like a GT2871 until next weekend, but I say it spools more like a GT2554r, with boost threshold between a GT2554 and a GT2560. Of course the original production run had a tendency to do a decent impression of a miniature shrapnel grenade....
 

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Ever heard of J pipes? Saw that in one of my other forums I frequent. I am not sure how feasible that is in the limited space on the Spyder but I heard that kills a lot of drone.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Ever heard of J pipes? Saw that in one of my other forums I frequent. I am not sure how feasible that is in the limited space on the Spyder but I heard that kills a lot of drone.
Helmholtz resonator in the exhaust? I see weight, space, frequency harmonics tuning time, and material costs as downsides. A really elegant solution though! I'd actually love to do it that way and hadn't been thinking of that until you mentioned it. Not sure I'll ever put it high enough on the priority list to actually do the project, but it is a great idea!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Good stuff:

Setup EBC (incredibly easy with the EMU sub-injector and the built in solenoid). 3 psi at ~2000 rpm. 6 psi at about 2600 rpm. By 4000 rpm, cruising at light throttle to WOT, boost response is about the same as the response time of the TPS signal in the data logger.

By hooking a garden hose to the W2A intercooler and turning it on a calibrated trickle, every dyno pull can be a lot like the first one.

Got new (2 mounted and driven on but still showing the mold nubbies on the tread through the OPR, 2 never mounted) 140 treadwear labeled rs3's for $390 mounted and balanced.

Got a brand new Greddy map sensor offered to me by a buddy who stopped by the dyno while I was there (not a knock off, offered for free, but I said we'd work out a price)

Bad stuff:


Dyno didn't like my OBD2 port signal for fuel trims.

Dyno would not lock in a step routine properly (found out later the inductive pickup isn't sensitive enough at low rpm and we needed to use 5th gear).

Misfire any time I go above about 5 psi. This is with 1 heat range colder NGK v power plugs gapped 0.028".

Catalyst below threshold code p0420, with a brand new cat. Cat is clearly doing something as it is way more heat discolored than the adjacent pipe.

OPR on the two front tires started wearing away and my balance went away with it. 120 miles later, there is still some OPR.
 

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Good stuff:

Setup EBC (incredibly easy with the EMU sub-injector and the built in solenoid). 3 psi at ~2000 rpm. 6 psi at about 2600 rpm. By 4000 rpm, cruising at light throttle to WOT, boost response is about the same as the response time of the TPS signal in the data logger.

By hooking a garden hose to the W2A intercooler and turning it on a calibrated trickle, every dyno pull can be a lot like the first one.

Got new (2 mounted and driven on but still showing the mold nubbies on the tread through the OPR, 2 never mounted) 140 treadwear labeled rs3's for $390 mounted and balanced.

Got a brand new Greddy map sensor offered to me by a buddy who stopped by the dyno while I was there (not a knock off, offered for free, but I said we'd work out a price)

Bad stuff:


Dyno didn't like my OBD2 port signal for fuel trims.

Dyno would not lock in a step routine properly (found out later the inductive pickup isn't sensitive enough at low rpm and we needed to use 5th gear).

Misfire any time I go above about 5 psi. This is with 1 heat range colder NGK v power plugs gapped 0.028".

Catalyst below threshold code p0420, with a brand new cat. Cat is clearly doing something as it is way more heat discolored than the adjacent pipe.

OPR on the two front tires started wearing away and my balance went away with it. 120 miles later, there is still some OPR.
Standard reach spark plugs or short reach?

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2 BC Oldman wants to know
 

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I would swap over to the shorter race plug, it's still a v power plug just designed for detonation prone situations. I picked up ten whp in a boosted application with them. I'll look for the part number.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2 BC Oldman wants to know
 

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R567A-7 is the part number, I would gap them .005 closer than stock, as I have had great success with this plug and with the -8 and-9 depending on how much boost and nitrous I would run. Basically the ceramic and electrode are recessed down compared to your "regular" style.

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^ I use same spark plugs with 8 heat range gapped at .025" and never have a misfiring problem.

The cat will always have discoloration to them due to the extra heat they build up.. That's normal and cats need to be heated up like that to function. It looks like you went with a high flow cat and that may be the reason for the catalyst code. An easy fix would be to use an o2 extension bung. I hope that Borla isn't chambered because that may be the source of the drone. I would replace either the cat or the Borla muffler with a Vibrant Ultraquiet resonator and it will cut the drone down significantly. Unless you're environmental friendly, I would get rid of the cat to improve turbo response and spool.
 

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so is this a good replacement for GT2860RS turbo cause I am about to change my internals and if this is more efficient and better that Garret then I'll just buy Borg Warner turbo?

how much are they?

P.S you should defienlty invest into Apexi PFC or Hydra ems get rid of the Emanage if you can
 

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Discussion Starter #17
^ I use same spark plugs with 8 heat range gapped at .025" and never have a misfiring problem.
Which ones? The ones Jason recommended, or the ones I'm running now?

The cat will always have discoloration to them due to the extra heat they build up.. That's normal and cats need to be heated up like that to function.
That was my point, that it is working (at least a bit :D )

It looks like you went with a high flow cat and that may be the reason for the catalyst code. An easy fix would be to use an o2 extension bung.
Ordered another one yesterday (previously ordered ones turned out to be in a mislabeled package), thanks for confirming it will work :D

I hope that Borla isn't chambered because that may be the source of the drone. I would replace either the cat or the Borla muffler with a Vibrant Ultraquiet resonator and it will cut the drone down significantly. Unless you're environmental friendly, I would get rid of the cat to improve turbo response and spool.
Not a chambered Borla. Straight through offset perf tube, very similar in specs to the Vibrand ultraquiet resonator. Seems to be getting louder even though it has only been around 600 miles.

Do you really think a 5" body, 100 CPI, 3" length cat is hurting spool a detectable amount? Not rhetorical, I'm interested in your perspective (and anyone else feel free to chime in). And yeah, I know, expecting it to make the stock computer happy was pretty unrealistic.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I think the misfire is oil fouling (no, i still haven't pulled plugs). I'm not happy with the oil return routing...

Oil line can't go under the axle, not touch, and not run uphill to get to the pan bung. With the existing (extended to get the oil line away from the turbo) fitting, the line can't go above the axle without going up after going down and without kinking.

So many teething issues.... Worst part is I thought I could make an improvement and cut the line shorter, and now I am off to a building center or whatever is open for some temporary solution so I can drive the car tomorrow.
 
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