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Drove Ceedap's SMT at Jay's in CT. It was my first experience. I liked it a lot and felt I could get used to it fairly quickly. It seemed very intuitive to me. And I'm very conmfortable w/mt shifting, but I still think it wouldn't be hard to learn. It's fun, very convenient in heavy traffic . . .

and then there's the really hard thump in the rear when you're shifting in Corky's car. (Can you say 260whp/SMT?)

Gino
 

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Originally posted by dreambackup
getting two down without breaking is actually easier and faster than on a MT
geez, you MT guys!! forgot about the tranny war, didn't I.

I know it's easier - I was trying to help out my SMT buds here!

Just so you know, Toyota Australia has opted to sell ONLY SMT models, or else I'd have an MT.

Since we're back in the 'war' , the SMT can be fun - perfect downshifts everytime, but if we're talking performance and ultimate driver control MT has no competition.

The SMT gets in the way regularly and I've practiced getting the thing up/down/around all over the rev range. It gets confused in low revs if you can't be direct with it, particularly between 3rd and 1st if the revs are close to the point it initiates automatic selection of 1st. My response is to try and push it into a lower cog than generally necessary when in tight traffic so you're never caught wanting push if you need it.

I'm in the process of getting my CAMS (racing) licence and you can't get passed w/o demonstrating your command of heel and toe changes so I have to go back and do this on a fully manual car.
 

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to me SMT is less fun because it takes away a big layer of driver involvement to the driving experience. an exaggerated example would be controlling your car completely by wire from a laptop.. sure you're driving it and controlling it and technically you could achieve the same performance, but you're not feeling each of the gears engage through the stick through your hand up your arm, or feeling the clutch engage/disengage with pressure from your foot. may seem silly, but driving has many subtle pleasures besides just how many milliseconds your car can downshift.

when you actually physically engage the car in gear and physically release the clutch and connect.. it just isn't the same as pressing a button or switch and pushing on the gas and going.

also your left foot is useless while driving an SMT, thus removing another point of interaction with the car. may sound minor but think about if you could control other aspects of your car (let's say shifting balance by moving your body in the seat).. it would be a much more engaging experience.

one negative about the MT is that you can't let your girlfriend or grand mommy borrow it.. as they probably dont know how to drive a stick.

this all said, SMT is very cool technology and convenient.. but i wouldnt have considered it because of practical reasons besides the more abstract ones i described. (hard to mod, reliability since it's more complex, gettin dissed for not having a MT
)
 

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Originally posted by foss
to me SMT is less fun because it takes away a big layer of driver involvement to the driving experience.<<<
I'm right with you there foss...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
also your left foot is useless while driving an SMT, thus removing another point of interaction with the car.<<>>.. it would be a much more engaging experience.[/b]
I've been taught to use my left foot to work on that brake pedal ALL the time. You're then able to nurse these two inputs (brake and R/Foot throttle) to make the car do what you want speed/stopping and weight-wise.

I totally agree about the sense of involvement tho. The connection to the gearbox seems distant in the SMT and that the speed of upshifts IS slow (or more correctly - somewhat unpredictable- compared to MT). I can't help wanting to have the MT for that sense of involvement & control (Is anyone from TOYOTA Australia listening??! I can't imagine what they were thinking when they decided to import only the less driver-orientated version of a car clearly designed as a driver's sports car in competition to the Miata/MX5).
 

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For whatever reasons I can't figure out, Toyota has never been responsive to the customer. They do their polls and market research, then build & sell according to the results which are often skewed.

I compare this to my Datsun 240Z days where the company was totally responsive and offered so many options to build and play.

While I still love my Spyder, it's not because of any contribution on the part of Toyota. The innovation pioneered right here on Spyderchat is what has made ownership a huge ton of fun. As a hub for ingenuity, SC has put us all in touch w/ like minded people all over the world to share in the exploration of whatever can be done to make this a more fun experience.

I feel for you guys who have had this shoved down your throat. Toyota just doesn't believe in options except on a randam basis. Euro 6-speed w/ LSD? Forget about it over here. You guys just get the SMT, no MT? Toyota blows again!

Gino
 

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I'm 50 years old I've driven mostly manual trannies .Only owned 2 vehicles with automatics, both pickups. I've always had a performance car, usually a sports car. Ive driven Corky's smt before and after turbo. Before it was interesting and different. After it made me think about doing a swap into my car. It won't work because I have a 2zz, six speed in mine and jap 300 tried to make the wireing work and couldn't.

I can out shift the SMT going up but as has been stated many times this car is for twisties so the delay won't be obtrusive .Besides the increase in power masks the delay in shifting. Downshifts are perfect. mine are very good 95% of the time. It would be interesting seeing a test on a very tight corse with turbo cars around 220 hp one manual one SMT.

It would also be interesting if Jaread and James try theirs out in a straight line acceleration test. IIRC they are both basicly the same turbo. That would show the differance of the trannies under boost.

I never thought I'd like the SMT before I drove one under boost. With a stock Spyder I wouldn't want it, but add 50%-!00% more power and its very nice. I know Corky upgraded the clutch and I'm sure that helped some along with doubling the horsepower makes it a nice package. I could see shifting with the steering wheel buttons could be very intuitive and maybe quicker on a track or a very twisty road. :twisted:

David
 

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Originally posted by foss
to me SMT is less fun because it takes away a big layer of driver involvement to the driving experience.
And that's ok for you to feel this way. It after all typical of someone without the experience of actually driving one.
 

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I thought I would like the SMT. I have a M3 bmw with the SMG trans which is the best tranny I have ever driven. So I was expecting more from the SMT spyder when I test drove it. The dealer was a friend of mine so he let me have the car for a day.

I took the car into the hills and put it thru the ringer. The clutch did not like my aggressive driving. It smelled like burned clutch when I returned it. This may have something to do with the clutch not being broken in before I abused it.

But I would like to drive a turbo one and compare it to my manual turbo.
 

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The SMT ECU works extremely well at protecting itself no matter how much you abuse it (except revving before launching in time before the beeping and computer clutch disengagement). if you experience a burning clutch something was wrong
 

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I did rev before launch and quickly found out it doesn't like that. But it never seemed to recover from the attempted launches. :mrgreen:
 
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Guys I am a week or so into my 2003 MR2 Spyder SMT experience.

I have to say that lifting off before shifting, especially at high revs does shift a little better, perhaps it doesn't shift faster, but it feels better (ie: car doesn't lunge forward giving you that strange artificial shift feeling).

I know the SMT is almost as fast as the manual around a track but I have no doubt at all that it feels a lot slower when shifting.

Take this scenario: At the lights, traction control off. Absolutely floor the feces out of the accelerator what is the first thing I notice? Clutch slip there is no wheel spin at all. This is just boring. Next, rev the tits out of it up to 7000rpm and lift off + shift into 2nd and what do I notice? Clutch slip slow shift no wheel spin at all into 2nd too. IE: No aggressive feeling, no feeling of the clutch grabbing hard and throwing you forward like a manual can.

In the end of the day the SMT is great for a daily drive. For when you can only have one hand on the wheel, for when you are lazy to shift down, for when you are lazy full stop.

It's not sporty at all because it can't get aggressive. I had an Alfa 147 a few years ago and that shifted a LOT faster and you could also launch the thing by building up revs and dumping it into 1st and it would do one very nasty big burnout.

I just sold my Honda Integra Type-R (I have owned both DC5R + DC2R) and coming from that to the MR2 was always going to be a little challenging.

In any case the MR2 is very different to my other car which is a track set-up Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R but it displays a nice oversteery feeling like the GT-R too. I kinda like that. It's a shame Australia never got the [email protected] manual, we all got SMT's. I would consider a conversion if I decided to keep the car for a while but I already have the MR2 up on the carsales web site and if I get the right price for it I definitely will sell it.

Don't get me wrong though. I don't HATE the SMT. It's fun on the downshift for sure. But it is in no way at all fun on the upshift and that's a fact. I have to say that the upshifts really do ruin the fun of having a sports car and sometimes driving in a "spirited" aggressive nature is part of the fun of owning a sports car in my opinion.

edited for profanity - carl
 

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It's all about guessing when the computer's 'auto-clutching actions' are completed. That's really all there is to it. And being new to the car and tranny, I'm sure you have not mastered it either.. trust me.. there is a good amount to master with the SMT. It's weird type of mastering too, it's like learning to negotiate with a robot (being the clutch-controller).
But anyways, if you lift - shift - and reapply gas all at the 'proper' times (with the updated 2003+ smt ecu) you get a nice aggressive shift. <which means all of the actions required to land you up onto the next gear are accomplished in about .5sec. :mrgreen:

OH AND BTW FOLKS: You ARE actually always supposed to (aggressive or not) LIFT gas - shift - then Reapply. This is obviously not just something people randomly do to make them feel good and fast in the SMT. :roll: It makes your shift time BE what it is supposed to be. And it is the proper way to do it. - says the Technical Documentation from Toyota on the MR2 Spyder that was given to you with your car. :wink:
 

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it is still not clear how the ECU works... even to me, after more than 18 months of driving my SMT...

sometimes it shifts faster at lower revs (let's say between 4 and 5k) than when pushing hard to the red line...

go figure... :?

I gave up asking Toyota...
 

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Originally posted by justinfox
Take this scenario: At the lights, traction control off. Absolutely floor the shit out of the accelerator what is the first thing I notice? Clutch slip there is no wheel spin at all.
Well I've never slipped when flooring the accelerator from a stop. Then again, I don't have traction control either. From the other things you've mention, sounds as if just maybe you have a clutch issue, or driver ability issues.

No wheel spin. Sounds like lack of massive torque and tires being to grippy. You should repalce them for regular all season street tires then maybe your Spyder will perform the way you like.

But overall, I think you brought the wrong type of car. You need a Mustang instead.
 
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Xavier6162 - obviously I hit a nerve with you.

I know the car has not got a clutch issue, it's just the way the MR2 is. I know there's no "driver ability" issues as there's nothing much to sitting at a stand still and flooring the accelerator pedal is there?

So are you saying that with traction control off, at a stand still and flooring it you get wheel spin? Is everyone saying that this happens on their SMT MR2's?

It's not that I think I bought the wrong car. It's just that I think the car would be more fun in manual but the manual version was never sold here in Australia. And the SMT is not as great as other SMT's on the market today full stop.

I know many of you love the SMT gearbox and that's great. I am sure you love it for all sorts of different reasons. I didn't mean to hit a nerve, just being honest and writing an honest opinion based on real experience and not just some 5 minute test drive. I think that's what forums are great for.
 

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Originally posted by justinfox
So are you saying that with traction control off, at a stand still and flooring it you get wheel spin? Is everyone saying that this happens on their SMT MR2's?
Not me. Can't get wheelspin out of my SMT unless it's one of those greasy starts from the lights on an oily or wet uphill as in Surry Hills (Albion Street near Crown or Riley - you know it Jfox?). (thats Sydney here in Aust. for you other readers!). On the flat, with warm tires dry day? No way Jose!

Been reading the Hass Turbo threads and I'm sure this tranny would feel better ie the upshift time would be less an issue with some more hp in the back.
 

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Originally posted by justinfox
Xavier6162 - obviously I hit a nerve with you.
Nope.

Sincerely, I really don’t give a “Shut your mouth”. Just being the typical Curmudgeon is all. Read my signature.

But if the shoe fits, I want you to wear the wig too.

Now go play with yourself.
 

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You can talk about this until cows fly but the bottom line is that the SMT in the MR2 sucks. It is not a sport transmission. It was simply a gimmick toyota tried to sell more spyders to people who wanted an automatic transmission and would not have bought a spyder if only a manual was available. It is perfectly fine for people who don't like a clutch and just use the car as a commuter.

The SMT is not a real sequential transmission and does not come close to performing like one.

What do you expect? You can't get a $10K sequential tranny in a $20k car.

If you ever drive a reall sequential in a BMW or Ferarri you will realize that they are worlds apart from the SMT.
 
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