[switchlanez]

 

[Joe Schmoe]

The new Permagrin?

No. It has a roof. And if it ever comes without a roof, I cringe at the thought of the price. I'd like to drive it, but I wouldn't run out and drop the cash on one.

 

[dblazer]

Sounds like a fun car. Just needs some power.

 

[Ricky22]

If i had to pick between the 2, i would take the brz over the mustang. Even though the mustang is more powerful its just to heavy and not as refined and precise as the brz imo. I feel the average person would post better times in the brz than they would in the mustang as its more of a handful than the brz around the track.

 

[HCS]

If i had to pick between the 2, i would take the brz over the mustang. Even though the mustang is more powerful its just to heavy and not as refined and precise as the brz imo. I feel the average person would post better times in the brz than they would in the mustang as its more of a handful than the brz around the track.

Here is my take. FRS/BRZ is like our spyder except it's slower in corner and drag, but has useless backseat. So why would you buy one for "money"? Might as well get the mustang, because it's a completely different car to appreciate.

 

[Ferrino]

Give me the BRZ over the ocean-liner absolutely any day of the week.

 

[sh4branze]

The color of the Mustang makes it hard to like.

 

[NitroMidgets]

I know of more then a few current model Mustangs that do rather well at the local auto-x events. I wouldn't underestimate the potential of the Mustang either. The Mustang is faster but doesn't handle well in stock trim. The BRZ handles well but doesn't have the power in stock trim. It would be interesting to see what they do with similar mods.

 

[dblazer]

I know of more then a few current model Mustangs that do rather well at the local auto-x events. I wouldn't underestimate the potential of the Mustang either. The Mustang is faster but doesn't handle well in stock trim. The BRZ handles well but doesn't have the power in stock trim. It would be interesting to see what they do with similar mods.

With all the Subaru tuners out there for the WRX I think that the BRZ is going to be HUGE for them, not like Mazda's Miata huge, but close to it.

A lot of young people don't really have the experience (our MR2 fans aside) of a rear wheel drive car, quite a lot have had front wheel drive only cars, and don't get the difference.

I think that when they catch on, these things will sell like crazy, and getting 275-300 or even 325-350 hp out of that motor should be a walk in the park.

That will change everything.

Speaking with Car and Driver at this week’s 2011 Los Angeles Auto Show, Subaru officials confirmed that the next-generation WRX and WRX STI will stick with turbo power but adopt a smaller 2.0-liter engine. The officials also revealed that curb weights will come down.

Importantly, while weight is said to be going down, power should be going the opposite direction. The reason for this is the recent launch of Subaru’s latest “FB” four-cylinder boxer engine.

In naturally aspirated trim, this engine’s peak output stands at a relatively unexciting 146 horsepower and 145 pound-feet of torque. However, with a turbocharger attached, and most likely direct injection technology as well, peak output should easily exceed the respective 265 and 305 horsepower outputs of the current WRX and WRX STI models.

Stay tuned for more.

Subaru also used this week’s 2011 Los Angeles Auto Show to announce that it’s new compact crossover based on the Impreza will be called the 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek when it goes on sale next year.

I'm assuming that's the same 2.0 liter motor we see in the BRZ, right?

 

[Ken Branch]

Give me the BRZ over the ocean-liner absolutely any day of the week.

+1 you summed it up pretty well!!

 

[dblazer]

This is the world's only front-engine, rear-drive sports car powered by a boxer engine. The Subaru 2.0-liter four is an all-new engine with a different block from that used in the 2012 Impreza, and features Toyota-sourced direct injection. It gets a unique FA designation within the Subaru engine family (the closely related 2012 Impreza engine is known as the FB

So, same core engine and anything they do for the WRX STI will probably be able to be adapted fairly readily to the BRZ. So 305 hp with relatively "stock" components is a real possibility.

 

[SuperWhiteGT4]

This is the world's only front-engine, rear-drive sports car powered by a boxer engine. The Subaru 2.0-liter four is an all-new engine with a different block from that used in the 2012 Impreza, and features Toyota-sourced direct injection. It gets a unique FA designation within the Subaru engine family (the closely related 2012 Impreza engine is known as the FB

So, same core engine and anything they do for the WRX STI will probably be able to be adapted fairly readily to the BRZ. So 305 hp with relatively "stock" components is a real possibility.

The engine started at the FB, but Yamaha worked it over. New block, heads, connecting rods, and pistons. Crankshaft I'm unsure about.

They use the same mounting points though, and those mounting points are also the same as the EJ series they used for years and years.

 

[dblazer]

The engine started at the FB, but Yamaha worked it over. New block, heads, connecting rods, and pistons. Crankshaft I'm unsure about.

They use the same mounting points though, and those mounting points are also the same as the EJ series they used for years and years.

So there's a stronger lower end, but the "plumbing" should still be relatively easily adaptable. Does Subaru make two versions of the lower end, one for the N/A cars and one for the F/I? It appears that they're going to a 2.0 liter engine for the WRX/STI cars for the next model year, seems unlikely that they'd use a different motor for this one, doesn't it?

Or am I missing something? (Wouldn't be the first time.)

 

[SuperWhiteGT4]

So there's a stronger lower end, but the "plumbing" should still be relatively easily adaptable. Does Subaru make two versions of the lower end, one for the N/A cars and one for the F/I? It appears that they're going to a 2.0 liter engine for the WRX/STI cars for the next model year, seems unlikely that they'd use a different motor for this one, doesn't it?

Or am I missing something? (Wouldn't be the first time.)

The plumbing would only be adaptable if all the passages in the block are the same, so I don't know about that part of it, since I haven't pulled an FA apart yet. Yamaha designed a lot of the engine in the car, instead of subaru, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were major differences.

I do know from the literature that the connecting rod shape is pretty radically different and while they're both 2.0L, the FA is an extremely high compression square 1998cc engine, and the FB is an average compression undersquare 1995cc engine. The heads in the FA are both direct and port injection, and the FB is port-only in it's current iterations. There's also a rather dramatic difference in valve angles between the engines, not unlike the 1ZZ and 2ZZ differences.

 

[dblazer]

The plumbing would only be adaptable if all the passages in the block are the same, so I don't know about that part of it, since I haven't pulled an FA apart yet. Yamaha designed a lot of the engine in the car, instead of subaru, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were major differences.

I do know from the literature that the connecting rod shape is pretty radically different and while they're both 2.0L, the FA is an extremely high compression square 1998cc engine, and the FB is an average compression undersquare 1995cc engine. The heads in the FA are both direct and port injection, and the FB is port-only in it's current iterations. There's also a rather dramatic difference in valve angles between the engines, not unlike the 1ZZ and 2ZZ differences.

Looks like you're right, That is until you get to the engine. It might seem easy to bolt the twin-scroll turbocharger from the JDM-spec WRX STI onto the BRZ's 2.0-liter boxer, but the BRZ uses an all-new engine that utilizes both direct and port injection. Even so, a low-boost setup should lift power to around 295 horsepower and almost double its torque output to 280 pound-feet but I'm still not sure they're talking about the 2013 WRX/STI motor because Subaru says they're dropping it from 2.5L back down to 2.0L for 2013.

I just thought it was odd that they'd use two different motors so close in displacement/purpose when they could just use the one.

It'll all come clear, but I'd bet there's HUGE $$$ to be made in BRZ tunage . . .

 

[SuperWhiteGT4]

Looks like you're right, That is until you get to the engine. It might seem easy to bolt the twin-scroll turbocharger from the JDM-spec WRX STI onto the BRZ's 2.0-liter boxer, but the BRZ uses an all-new engine that utilizes both direct and port injection. Even so, a low-boost setup should lift power to around 295 horsepower and almost double its torque output to 280 pound-feet but I'm still not sure they're talking about the 2013 WRX/STI motor because Subaru says they're dropping it from 2.5L back down to 2.0L for 2013.

I just thought it was odd that they'd use two different motors so close in displacement/purpose when they could just use the one.

It'll all come clear, but I'd bet there's HUGE $$$ to be made in BRZ tunage . . .

I'm sure there'll be an ocean of parts for these cars.

As far as the litreage change, I think it's because up through 2012, the turbo cars are still the old EJ series engines, and they're finally switching to the FB series for the turbo cars.

My opinion on the two motors is simply N/A vs. turbo. N/A Subarus are a genuine pain in the ass to make power with, so they let Yamaha figure out why.

 

[NitroMidgets]

Never assume that because a previous model was a success that all the following models will. The Eclipse is a good example of one model selling really well and being well supported by the aftermarket while a later version was not. The same could be said for our Spyders as well. The 2nd gen MR2 saw much more support and popularity. It will be interesting to see what happens in the aftermarket but never make a generalization about what will be supported based off of what used to be supported. Oh course if it is sold in massive volume then it essentially almost dictates there will be aftermarket support.
Then again about the time the turbo model comes out we can compare these cars all over again as Ford is set to release the EcoBoost Mustang. Though also like with the turbo FB it won't be for another couple years.

A future factory turbo model sounds like it will be worth waiting to see, or purchase if you were considering buying one.

 

[Ken Branch]

Then again about the time the turbo model comes out we can compare these cars all over again as Ford is set to release the EcoBoost Mustang

I'm hoping the next gen mustang is smaller and lighter, not holding my breath though!

 

[NitroMidgets]

We can always hope that those fleet average mpg goals bring about the downsizing of some cars. Subaru is already looking to downsize as are many others. Doing it while meeting crash ratings, mandates for things like safety equipment to protect the stupid and so on will make it take longer then it should.

I believe Ford recently said that they will offer ecoboost options for ever vehicle they make in the next few years.
Then again I thought that they were already talking about a completely new design for the Mustang in 2015?

It will be nice to see the car companies get into the habit of trying to out do each other in something other then sheer hp and massive size.

 

[lexus005]

He said Lexus 350 gear box! So the transmission is rated at least double the stock HP....awesome. Upon further comparison a Genesis 3.8 does a quarter mile in 13.8 with 150hp HP more. The FRS does it in 14.8...so sad.