MR2 SpyderChat banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
For those who have missed it because it is not about the MR2 Spyder.

Although not about the MR Spyder directly but so crámmed full of information that does directly apply to the Spyder and a whole host of threads about it, that in my opinion it belongs hére.

It really warrants attention, mulling over and perhaps reviewing.

Enjoy!

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
Seeing this, it really drove the point home of lighter weight being better for this kind of driving. I believe when they compared the Cayman to the 911 and old to the new NSX, the newer/heavier stuff wasn't posting the same times the former was.

This could come down to several factors, but I think that holds true. Also the higher displacement Supra that belonged to Max Orido seemed to be having problems, so I wonder if those got sorted out eventually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
...and to put a fine point to it, it is only a 75-100 kilos shorter motor. A rather ´subtle´ reduction of the pmi and it changes the character of the car.
I think it übercool that a solid chunk of horses less results in a quicker car despite the 6 pot being a lot faster.
PMI rules (y)
 

·
Registered
2001 MR2 Spyder
Joined
·
56 Posts
I love these guys! Thanks for the share!

I had no idea a 4-cyl was even an option for the supra, he appreciated the weight savings, but there is no replacement for displacement as the old adage goes. Truth be told, I wish Toyota pony'd up the billions required to develop a predecessor to the 2JZ, but understand why they travelled to the hinterlands of Bavaria instead. I guess I'm more of a purist. Any Supra is better than no Supra.

When I first thought about buying a spyder I watched these same guys test a stock MR-S vs Civic type R which absolutely showcases the benefit of mid engine and it's rear bias distribution of 43/57 and a lively 140hp vs FWD 190hp. Impressive to say the least.


If you liked that, here is it's debut against all the lightweight of japan, and only the SW20 Turbo MR2 is it's real competition because of it's higher output on the straights.


Cheers,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I love these guys! Thanks for the share!

I had no idea a 4-cyl was even an option for the supra, he appreciated the weight savings, but there is no replacement for displacement as the old adage goes.
Well this one pretty much proves that for sport cars there is; lightness.
But then that has been the old addage in the old world :p

The 3l is lazy hp for daily use in the city, cruising and the great sound; the 2l for chasing corners. Heck they even rate it higher for track use! I did not see thát one coming!!
 

·
Registered
2001 MR2 Spyder
Joined
·
56 Posts
Well this one pretty much proves that for sport cars there is; lightness.
But then that has been the old addage in the old world :p

The 3l is lazy hp for daily use in the city, cruising and the great sound; the 2l for chasing corners. Heck they even rate it higher for track use! I did not see thát one coming!!
That's true, I was taking the driver's word for it, he seemed to really like the 3.0L after using both.

Lotus has two great sayings about this:

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights; subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" - Chapman

Simplify, then add lightness. If it didn't break, it's too heavy."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
As clever as the citations are, their popular attribution to Chapman is mostly euhmmmm.... myth; opportune embellishment of a grain of truth. The wisdom of lightness is basic Newtonian science and even Ettore Bugatti was not the first to use it as design priciple for his racers although he was the most successful one to put it all together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,038 Posts
Depends a lot on the track. Our old local track no matter how nimble the car was, there were too many straights and high speed corners to keep up to cars with big horsepower even if they were 1000 lb heaver. It became more of a HP vs wind resistance battle. And a I4 is not a Supra.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Definitely depends on the track layout. I have always enjoyed these Japanese Touge battles because they are downhill momentum setups that put a premium on handling alone. Change that to something with actual straights, or even the same layout but uphill, and it becomes a much different story.

Yes, I agree that an I4 isn’t a Supra...even though they diluted the name so much from the start of the Mk5 I don’t even think it much matters at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gunship Runabout

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
weight vs power is a very course specific concept. A more top speed straights type of course is going to favor cars with lots of power (think muscle cars). A small, tight track with multiple corners will definitely favor light small car (our spyders are almost as good as it gets for this type of racing). A track with lots of banks/high speed curves will definitly favor a powerful car, but most important will be lateral grip and Aero. (Think why Huracan with those fancy aeros did so much better on the Ring, vs "basic" Huracan)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
and the real world is ´the same´. Over here where I live it is Touge heaven. Bar highways, the whole of the peninsula is drivers´ heaven. Well, for those drvers who like corners that is ;-)

The crux of the thread is what it says; the conondrum of sports cars. In mý book power makes a fást car but nimbleness a sports car.
Whether the 4 pt ´is´ a Supra or not, it is more nimble and more suited for real world twisty bits; more sports car. The 6 pot would only see it when leaving say from Málaga up the secondary roads to where I live. From the east side of Málaga there is even a double ´curva corbata´.
I would lóve to have a 4 pot Supra. Mind, I´d like a Yaris GR more still, but real world speed limits say that it is more sensible to keep the Spyder :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
and the real world is ´the same´. Over here where I live it is Touge heaven. Bar highways, the whole of the peninsula is drivers´ heaven. Well, for those drvers who like corners that is ;-)

The crux of the thread is what it says; the conondrum of sports cars. In mý book power makes a fást car but nimbleness a sports car.
Whether the 4 pt ´is´ a Supra or not, it is more nimble and more suited for real world twisty bits; more sports car. The 6 pot would only see it when leaving say from Málaga up the secondary roads to where I live. From the east side of Málaga there is even a double ´curva corbata´.
I would lóve to have a 4 pot Supra. Mind, I´d like a Yaris GR more still, but real world speed limits say that it is more sensible to keep the Spyder :cool:
Or you can mod the spyder..... 🤩 and 🤯both Supra and Yaris on twisties...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Mine is a work in progress; currently 890 kg. :p
I make no illusions about the Yaris GR though. That is in a different league.
Actually that is something I am not even concerned about. Both cars like Yaris GR and Civic Type R are good only in "Stock" form. realistically, that Yaris is what ? 3 cylinder engine?? how much more power can you squeeze out of it and be reliable? and its not a light car.... about 3000 lbs. with a very short wheelbase. If I wanted specific AWD rally car, I would just buy a WRX===lots more options and modifications available.
(((Now this is Strictly Hypothetical (haven't tested out either yet) but my K24 swapped spyder should blow Yaris GR in every aspect, short of maybe Rally course.--on paper anyways lol)))

Type R Civic... well its FWD, only so much you can do to it--- To me when I see it, its basically a turbocharged EJ B18 swapped Civic +Coilovers + Aero---- Why should I pay 40k +15k dealer markup again???? 🙁maybe I am missing something🙁

PS: Still interested in that 890 Kg weight, how to do it lol 🤩
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
PS: Still interested in that 890 Kg weight, how to do it lol 🤩
There is no secret to it; basically just doggedly deleting things.
Have a read:

Southern Belle

Most should be covered. Even the here on spyderchat much maligned crash bars ;-)

On the want list are:
  • lightweight front brake calipers
  • fiber bonnet
  • fiber rear deck
  • lexan windscreen
The first is depending on homologation, the other three are hampered by prohibitive shipping cost.
None likely to get realised, but hey the car is bags of fun as is.

A lighter flywheel would be most noticeable too but don´t like the ´price´ in driveability.

3D printing the rear wing supports is on the list too and thát will be done. Not much of weight benefit, only 100 gram or so, but a cool excersize on itself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
There is no secret to it; basically just doggedly deleting things.
Have a read:

Southern Belle

Most should be covered. Even the here on spyderchat much maligned crash bars ;-)

On the want list are:
  • lightweight front brake calipers
  • fiber bonnet
  • fiber rear deck
  • lexan windscreen
The first is depending on homologation, the other three are hampered by prohibitive shipping cost.
None likely to get realised, but hey the car is bags of fun as is.

A lighter flywheel would be most noticeable too but don´t like the ´price´ in driveability.

3D printing the rear wing supports is on the list too and thát will be done. Not much of weight benefit, only 100 gram or so, but a cool excersize on itself.
carpets are gone, powersteering will be out soon, spare, tools, and the frunk box with plastics are all removed. Interior--- Carpeting is removed, rear compartment doors, removed, basically gutted all behind the seat. getting 8lbs flywheel (it is what it is)

Some things I do plan to do (on to do list I guess), but either money, time or other concerns which prevent me from doing so:

1) remove the sound system and speakers.---- they are shot completly. Option is to put new bluetooth compatible system + small speakers, but I like sound of the road more. Gutting them should save about 20lbs total i guess

2) Brakes--- well I waiting on that mod, as I want to feel for the new power level the car will have + consider if I do decide to add more hp--- Rotrex perhaps? or NA build?

3) Hood, I needed to replace hood year ago (still havent put it on). I was looking at vented CF hoods, but decided against, weight saving would actually be minimal, but structural rigidity would be affect.

4) Was thinking about Lexan, but I would not put it on street daily driver. (unless I get hardtop, and put it as rear glass on hardtop)

5) Hardtop--- OEM hardtops seem to weight almost identical to the soft top convertible mechanism. I am eyeing the CF VIS hardtop, but I have no clue how heavy that thing with Lexan glass would be, and only way I would justify getting hardtop is IF I could do solid bolt-in mounts. ---- which will at the same time, make it hard to take it off if I want to go opentop driving(which I love)

6) I would like to get lighter seats, but thats also a problem, to find seat that fits me, while fitting the spyder.

🤣7) I plant to get set of lightweight rims with Toyo R comps.--- while keeping stock rims with All season tires. But for that to happen have to first wear out my summer tires which are mounted on stock rims. (which shouldnt be too hard with my current set-up lol🤣)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
2) Brakes--- well I waiting on that mod, as I want to feel for the new power level the car will have + consider if I do decide to add more hp--- Rotrex perhaps? or NA build?
The car does not need more stopping power, even with 250 hp. and if you woúld want more there are always more agressive pads.
The mod I would like eliminates the play in the sliding calipers and is 2 kg per wheel unsprung weight less.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
3) Hood, I needed to replace hood year ago (still havent put it on). I was looking at vented CF hoods, but decided against, weight saving would actually be minimal, but structural rigidity would be affect.
The hood/rear lid does not add ány structural stiffness. They basically lie loosely on top in rubbers. They are however part of the crumple zone and dó absorb energy in case of a crash.
There is quite a bit of weight to be saved there; about 6 kg up front and almost 5 at the rear. Pricey though, unlike unbolting things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
As far as brakes go, I heard that too, that big brake kit is not necessary, and that better pads will easily deal with overheating. (No clue what power I get but expect 220+/-10 to the wheels). Guess it's something I see on practice. - day I get my car I post it here btw.

Hood, well that's what I meant --- not frame but crumple zone-- stiffness during wreck. Those CF hoods are about 700$ while oem good is pretty much same once you consider proper painting. I do want rear cf engine lid, but no reason to replace one that works atm (so many other things are on the list first)
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top