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Discussion Starter #42
I think 31 years in sports cars qualifies me as an enthusiast. It is just bullshit to say all enthusiasts prefer manuals. What next, you're not an enthusiast unless the car has a starting handle?

As to more fun? That is purely subjective. I went to buy a manual, but curiosity had me test drive the PDK and my decision was made.
Indeed....just like any real motorcyclist agrees you must have a kickstart....

Isn't it obvious that I'm just having a sense of humor about the whole thread/subject? If not rest assured that I "am" exaggerating for the fun of it.

I think a purpose built track car with a full race sequential gear box would be extremely fun to bang through the gears at lightning speed....the watered down versions not so much; the manual are more fun....in my opinion ?
 

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Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
I’m not sure if anyone has to worry about trading in their Spyder on the new vette this year. Rumor has it that next years allocation has already been sold out. Not sure how true it is but I can see scalpers trying to get a ton of cash (No were near 60k) for their spot in line. As I said before vette fans have been waiting decades for this car. That being said, no one in their right would turn down trading in a 2001 to 2005 Toyota Spyder for a mid engine monster capable of 2.7 seconds zero to sixty car. Come on guys Really???? I get the chance to pick up a new mid engine vette the Spyder is gone, my truck is gone, my pet dog, the turtle and my ant farm are outta here!!

I'd never get rid of my MR-2 Spyder...(except for spirutal reasons, which surpass in importance ALL things material/superfucial) too much of my own personality; blood, sweat, tears and imagination. These sentiments are not unique to the MR-S Spyder, but rather common when you're talking about "project cars".

They are an expression and token of your own effort, an outlet for your creativity, (some might consider them an art) as opposed to just purchasing a car from a manufacturer and enjoying it for what's it's worth. Which by the way, there is NOTHING wrong with that either. On the subject of art, I suppose the MR-2 Spyder was a perfect canvas on which to practice and hone it....lol

I personally appreciate a fine piece of automotive excellence, regardless of its origins. That's why I consider myself a car enthusiast, (sports car to be exact) be they personal projects or straight from a manufacturer. The McLaren P1 is a fascinating piece of machinery to me...and it happens to be a sequential lol.
 

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Project cars are interesting as an expression of a persons style and personality, but nothing is static. They are "perfect" for just a relatively short period, and then time takes over and normal wear steps in, desires change, or technology makes them obsolete.

I thought the first car I modified as a project was perfect. Years later, I look back and see it wasn't nearly as good as I thought at the time. It was "hot stuff" in the era, but times change.

We love our Spyder, but we are realists. We intend to keep it as long as possible, and it may be set up exactly as we want it, but it is getting older, mileage is adding up, and some parts are getting hard to get. Even consumables like tires are problematic. There is a limit to how long it can be enjoyed before it becomes very challenging to just keep on the road. Our main goal is to enjoy driving the car, not having it as a "look at me" car.

At the same time, technology marches on. The capabilities of new cars are amazing. A Spyder may be unique and a fun car, but many new cars are more capable driving machines. No only will many run rings around a Spyder, but they can still be used every day to go get the groceries without fear that some unobtainium or custom part will break and put the car out of service.
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
Project cars are interesting as an expression of a persons style and personality, but nothing is static. They are "perfect" for just a relatively short period, and then time takes over and normal wear steps in, desires change, or technology makes them obsolete.

I thought the first car I modified as a project was perfect. Years later, I look back and see it wasn't nearly as good as I thought at the time. It was "hot stuff" in the era, but times change.

We love our Spyder, but we are realists. We intend to keep it as long as possible, and it may be set up exactly as we want it, but it is getting older, mileage is adding up, and some parts are getting hard to get. Even consumables like tires are problematic. There is a limit to how long it can be enjoyed before it becomes very challenging to just keep on the road. Our main goal is to enjoy driving the car, not having it as a "look at me" car.

At the same time, technology marches on. The capabilities of new cars are amazing. A Spyder may be unique and a fun car, but many new cars are more capable driving machines. No only will many run rings around a Spyder, but they can still be used every day to go get the groceries without fear that some unobtainium or custom part will break and put the car out of service.
When customizing, one should think of the long term....my objective is to build a "timeless" machine. Something that can be appreciated both performance wise and aestheticlly, indefinitely. A car that is simple, neutral and mature enough for daily use, yet still sporty/aggressive .

I enjoy the challenge of building a sports car that is simple and clean and yet still aggressive and raw without being overly "loud".

The main purpose of an MR-2 Spyder is "fun", via a relatively inexpensive, lightweight, tossable mid-engine chassis. Its unique, and few other cars on road can duplicate its driving experience.
 

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IT'S TAKEN 30 YEARS FOR GM TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THE MID-ENGINE REVOLUTION. MY PONTIAC FIERO GT V6 WAS CLOSE BUT LACKED CHASSIS GUTS AND HP.
THE REAL MEASURE WILL BE ACCEPTANCE OF THOSE REPEAT CORVETTE BUYERS WHO MAY BE FRONT ENGINE BIASED. IT'S GOT ROOM FOR A SET OF GOLF CLUBS SO THE OLD FOLKS HAVE BO REASON TO SHY AWAY.
WATCH FOR MAJOR MARGIN UPCHARGES BY GREEDY DEALERS AND RESELLERS.
ORIGINALLY DESIGNERS THOUGHTS WERE FOR ELECTRIC ENGINES UP FRT AS WELL, WE'LL SEE HOW THAT EVOLVES W THE INSURANCE NAZI'S RUNNING THE SHOW.
 

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Well, the early reviews are in (sort of). Some publications were given test samples of the new Corvette. Some loved it and some held back on total praise. Of course Car&Driver loved it. Too much understeer, cable by wire brakes, a whole list of minor complaints. Bottom line, it is a really nice car, not great (yet), but a good value, when compared to the competition (whoever you want to compare it to).
I cannot afford to buy it, but I would not mind renting it for a day or two or three ...........
 

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I read the MotorTrend review and they said it had something like insane amounts of understeer. Add power and you get more understeer. I GUARANTEE they tuned it not for the enthusiast, but for 80% of their buyer base... the boomers. Who are guaranteed to kill themselves in a proper mid engine car. Which is good on GM's part, they're right to do so, but it's a shame that enthusiasts won't get the performance they want out of anything below a Z06, which will likely drive better. And yes you can replace suspension, but you lose MagneRide or whatever GM calls it, and I hear it's pretty amazing.

For reference, the 2014 base Cayman I had let you kick the rear end out and shred tires quite a bit without disabling any nannies. Full traction control on, just sport mode enabled. Let me drift a 180 from a stop even. It's lovely.
 

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I am just thinking of the usual Corvette owner trying to drive this set up hard.. not seeing any positive outcomes. Other that lots of wrecked midengine Corvette parts for some builders to create some really cool customs.. so bonus parts for the custom builders?? The usual owners cannot manage their cell phone.
 

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Kinda sad we had to wait so long for GM to go mid engine, and in parallel with (unconfirmed ) reports of a Tesla matching a MacLaren time on a Japan circuit. Still, for a company who saved the "Booik" brand for China it is interesting GM would fund the mid engine project. And...I guess the 3000 pound barrier will hold forever as Porsche cannot regain it either , even with (dry) carbon fiber accessories. What happened to Toyota with its Supra?

Lots of Teslas appearing locally and impressive accelerators they are. For fun and as "bearer of the Spyder standard" last week I bugged one Tesla bully by sticking on him with my passing signal on. ( No opportunity to pass) I will probably visit a showroom to press the "flesh" of the new Corvette.
 

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I still say that if Toyota would partner with Chevy they could easily make a a new MR2 Spyder (like the Toyota/Pontiac Vibe-Matrix). They would just need to shrink it and put in the Lexus longitudinal V6 ( or even the GM LFX from the Camaro) . If Monster Miata can put a Ford 302 engine in the Miata and have it weigh approx 2600 lbs, then a new Chevy MR2 at under 3000 lbs should be obtainable. Less exotic materials would need to be used to keep the cost down and I don't need to carry two golf bags, but one would be nice.

Sorry, just daydreaming again.:)
 

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Tesla's time at Tsukuba Circuit is kinda... worthless. It's 1:04.730 and everyone's comparing it to the 1:04.62 the McLaren F1 set in 1994. The Model 3 is "highly modified" and on 305 Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires. I'm curious what an F1 could do on modern tire technology, because in the last 26 years tire tech has wildly improved. But either way, the impressiveness of this is kinda... eh.

If you want more impressive numbers, the Techno Pro Spirit MR-S running a naturally aspirated 2ZZ did a 1:01.010 lap around 2014. Is it faster than an F1? I wouldn't say so. Just in this specific instance 20 years apart. 5 Must-See Time Attack Weapons From Tsukuba - Speedhunters

On the topic of a new MR2 Spyder, it just won't happen. At least not for a long time.
 

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A while back ...was it Gordon Murray? who published concept of a "plastic" everyman's car. It was not porky. The start up cost and acceptance probably axed it?
 

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When I daydream, I try to do it well:
You can say what you want about Doug, but I think he nails it here. For me, maybe in a year or two (or three)


But I see about $25,000 that could be eliminated for a new MR2.
 
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