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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recognizing that the root of all evil is the faulty piston/ring design of the 00-02 1ZZ-FED...
Does anyone know with what VIN or 4-digit build date Mother Toyota implemented the corrective re-design as used in the 03-05 engine? Doubt it was as simple as the model year. Or...was it?
First with the correct info wins a freshly-cooked 01 short block!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nothing helpful in that thread per se...except a link to this thread elsewhere http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33717 that includes the following info:

For all these parts I checked all production years, the dates listed are just the 'important' dates with reference to the particular year I copied & pasted from.

Code: Select all
13011 RING SET, PISTON
13011‑22090 1ZZFE..ZZW30, STD (12/1999 - 10/2001) 1 € 142.92
13011‑22150 1ZZFE..ZZW30, STD (11/2001 - 07/2002) 1 € 142.92

The later part - 13011-22150 is then listed for all years through to termination of production. So the piston rings changed from 11/2001.

Code: Select all
13101 PISTON SUB-ASSY, W/PIN
13101‑22030 1ZZFE..ZZW30, STD (12/1999 - 11/2001) 4 € 74.82
13101‑22031 1ZZFE..ZZW30, STD (12/2001 - 07/2002) 4 € 74.82
13101 PISTON SUB-ASSY, W/PIN
13101‑22031 1ZZFE..ZZW30, STD (08/2002 - 04/2005) 4 € 74.82
13101‑22032 1ZZFE..ZZW30, STD (05/2005 - 08/2005) 4 € 77.71

The piston changed twice - 13101-22030 is listed for all cars to 11/2001. 13101-22031 is used from 12/2001 through to 04/2005 and finally 13101-22032 was used through the end of production.

Code: Select all
13201 ROD SUB-ASSY, CONNECTING
13201‑29038 1ZZFE..ZZW30 (08/2002 - 06/2004) 4 € 121.18
13201‑29176 1ZZFE..ZZW30 (07/2004 - 12/2004) 4 € 123.38

Earlier part runs from beginning of production to 06/2004. Later part runs till 2005 when:

Code: Select all
13201 ROD SUB-ASSY, CONNECTING
13201‑09201 1ZZFE..ZZW30, (L) 4 € 149.79
13201‑29038 1ZZFE..ZZW30 4 € 121.18
13201‑29176 1ZZFE..ZZW30, (J) 4 € 123.38

Apparently engines were produced with three possible parts in use..

Also:

Code: Select all
17141 MANIFOLD, EXHAUST
17104‑22060 1ZZFE..ZZW30 1 € 1,224.88
17104‑22061 1ZZFE..ZZW30, *115=TOYOTA/00-/Y 1 € 1,224.88

Prior to 2002 only 17104-22060 is listed, in 2002 both are listed and post 2002 only the latter (newer) part is listed.

So .. out of that myriad of changes, which one do you want to gamble was the one that fixed the issue? Is it the rings & pistons which changed in December 2001, or was it the manifold that changed some time in 2002 with no referenced production date?


If I'm reading this right, the piston/ring design change was implemented with production starting in 11/01. Curious...anyone encounter oval bore syndrome in a car made after this date?
 

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If I'm reading this right, the piston/ring design change was implemented with production starting in 11/01. Curious...anyone encounter oval bore syndrome in a car made after this date?
thats a good question. probably unanswerable because the pre-cats were still murdering engines in 02 via excess oil burn. actually some 03+'s were affected as well (including mine)

i read up on celica's and corollas too. which also have the 1zz. celica's seem to be effected in 00-01 for the most part. whereas theres a lot of 02 corollas burning oil. maybe they were last to get the upgraded engine

so based off the info you posted, i'm assuming its the 00-01 1zz you have to look out for, and they probably redesigned the precat in 03

but i digress.. just get an 03+ engine
 

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Oil burning is the root cause of problems. I would go with the later piston ring setup if I where trying to fix oil consumption, precat failure and bearing failure due to no oil on the dipstick. If the pistons and rings can't be replaced properly then a used or new short block would be my other choices.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thats a good question. probably unanswerable because the pre-cats were still murdering engines in 02 via excess oil burn. actually some 03+'s were affected as well (including mine)

i read up on celica's and corollas too. which also have the 1zz. celica's seem to be effected in 00-01 for the most part. whereas theres a lot of 02 corollas burning oil. maybe they were last to get the upgraded engine

so based off the info you posted, i'm assuming its the 00-01 1zz you have to look out for, and they probably redesigned the precat in 03

but i digress.. just get an 03+ engine
Agreed, the safest route for a replacement engine is to find an 03+. But I wonder why yours went bad? What's the build date on your driver's door plate? Maybe your car got an engine made before 11/01?

BTW, my understanding of the sequence of death is: faulty piston/ring design (rings don't seat properly) > oil leaks past the rings > oil enters the pre-cats > pre-cats deteriorate and eventually disintegrate > some pre-cat material ends up in the engine where it causes scoring and mechanical damage, while the rest enters the main cat with engine oil and irreparably fouls the catalytic material. If the pre-cats failed in a post-11/01 build-date car, I assume the same issue was the cause. Unless something else was damaging pre-cats for a while...
 

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Agreed, the safest route for a replacement engine is to find an 03+. But I wonder why yours went bad? What's the build date on your driver's door plate? Maybe your car got an engine made before 11/01?
my car had 145k miles on it when I gutted the pre-cats. thats a lot of miles. my precats were very much intact, but there was slight deterioration. a couple craters in the surface.

under extreme conditions my car does burn a little oil. but i have to be beating on it in the 5-7krpm rev range, or be on the freeway at 4k rpm for hours.

i'm not sure if the slight pre-cat wear is what caused this oil burn, or, the oil burn on an aging engine caused the pre-cat wear. in any case, the cat's are gone and ive got the oil burn pretty much under control. so they are both non-issues for me

your theory on the process is sound, however, in my opinion no matter what, pre-cats will break down. i mean they are designed so poorly. when i gutted them i was amazed that these made it off the chalkboard. they look like a middle school science project - a handful of fiberglass inbetween 2 ceramic wafers, DIRECTLY outside the engine where exhaust is at its hottest. poor, poor idea
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
my car had 145k miles on it when I gutted the pre-cats. thats a lot of miles. my precats were very much intact, but there was slight deterioration. a couple craters in the surface.

under extreme conditions my car does burn a little oil. but i have to be beating on it in the 5-7krpm rev range, or be on the freeway at 4k rpm for hours.

i'm not sure if the slight pre-cat wear is what caused this oil burn, or, the oil burn on an aging engine caused the pre-cat wear. in any case, the cat's are gone and ive got the oil burn pretty much under control. so they are both non-issues for me

your theory on the process is sound, however, in my opinion no matter what, pre-cats will break down. i mean they are designed so poorly. when i gutted them i was amazed that these made it off the chalkboard. they look like a middle school science project - a handful of fiberglass inbetween 2 ceramic wafers, DIRECTLY outside the engine where exhaust is at its hottest. poor, poor idea
I think getting 145k miles out of any engine is not too shabby, especially if you're driving it with some enthusiasm. I suspect on yours it was normal engine wear - specifically the ring fit - allowing traces of oil to reach the pre-cats and causing a bit of 00-01-style deterioration. The lesson seems to be that as these cars age, even 03-05s should have the pre-cats gutted as a precaution.

No question there was a fundamental flaw with the pre-cat design that Toyota and other manufacturers were using on some engines in the 00-01 period. As I've tried to understand the problem, I've looked at pre-cats taken off some Nissans and VWs of these years and they have identical deterioration. The difference with Toyotas seems to be that with the Japan-built 1ZZ-FED as used on the Celica GT and MR2, the layout was such that some pre-cat material was prone to getting sucked back into the exhaust manifold with engine-killing consequences.

There was a Toyota Service Bulletin aka TSB and an official Toyota recall on the US and Canada-built 1ZZ-FE engine as used in the Corolla, Matrix, Pontiac Vibe and a few other NA Toyotas in the 05-07 period, but that was a different issue.
 

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I think getting 145k miles out of any engine is not too shabby
No, that is Pitifully low Millage.. Modern Engines should hit the 300K Mark.. with some going 500K..

The lesson seems to be that as these cars age, even 03-05s should have the pre-cats gutted as a precaution.
Pure Speculation, and not grounded in any facts, or history found on the 1ZZ Forums..

No question there was a fundamental flaw with the pre-cat design that Toyota and other manufacturers were using on some engines in the 00-01 period.
Agreed, and it was fixed in '03 with the Pre-Cat redesign..

the layout was such that some pre-cat material was prone to getting sucked back into the exhaust manifold with engine-killing consequences.
That will happen with ANY engine if an abrasive material is loose in the exhaust port, as exhaust gasses are sucked back into the engine during Valve Overlap, or during normal Exhaust reverberations, as that is a side effect of the Exhaust Puff..

Cap
 
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