Last Update: 3/12/2014
"Getting closer and closer, Thanks to all who are helping make this a more manageable task for others"
Mounts: Solved
Shifting Mechanism: Solved
Axles: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Wiring: Researching, Updated 3/12/2014
Radiator Hoses: Solved
Heater Hoses: Solved
A/C: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Throttle Cable: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Fuel System: Solved
Exhaust System: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Anti-Lock Brakes: Solved
Power Steering: Solved
General Info: Always Read First...!
Well, I have been gone for a long time and will try to keep this updated. Sorry about the delay as I am in a transition period and can't work on the swap.
Also some really big information the innovative mounts put the engine so far forward that only the PRB intake manifold off of an RSX type S will fit.
BottledFedMR2 has confirmed this and it's been verified. So anything else will require the firewall to be cut or the manifold to be shortened. This sucks but at the same time it's nice to have the engine weight as far forward as possible as it puts it more centered.
I will have CONFIRMED next to everything I know for 100% is correct information.
Mounts: CONFIRMED
Recommends 75 was told by innovative that it's the same as a 65a poly used by
other companies. Theirs is pure poly so 65a could sag over time.
http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=90551
Shifting Mechanism: CONFIRMED
Use the Factory MR2 cables and this bracket will make them interface with no other mods.
http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=50507
**Note: 2006+ Civic SI transmission will require the shift "Arms" off of an RSX type S transmission. You will then be able to
hook up the innovative shift Mechanism as it would be on a normal RSX-type s Transmission.
Axles: CONFIRMED
Axles can be ordered through Drive Shaft Shop they now have part numbers on file though they are not on their website.
Part Number: RA9040x2 and RA9041X2
Wiring:
There is much debate about the wiring so far it's every man for himself. I haven't actually started the physical wiring so I can't confirm anything or have a proven design. There are a few that have completed their swaps and have them running and driving but they all sort of do wiring differently. Monkeywrench racing is working on a full swap kit and will be selling the parts all separately. I talked to them and they will be offering a wiring solution. Right now this is known for a fact!
If you want the car to fully function like a stock spyder you will need to shotgun the ECUs (Factory Toyota ECU and Honda ECU) if you don't care and want to replace your cluster then you can run a straight Honda ECU but don't expect it to be very easy and you will need to know wiring to do it. You will also find it a lot harder to get the A/C running correctly without redesigning the whole A/C wiring system.
Now if you just run the Honda ECU by itself and keep your factory cluster you will lose your TEMP gauge and a few other idiot lights.
Old Info 3/12/2014
ABS:
I have found in theory that the ABS is almost completely independent of the engine control unit there is one wire going to the ECU and from talks with people its a input to tell ecu that ABS is active.
P/S:
The P/S system isn't too much of an issue in my eyes as it will keep running if you don't give it any signal from ECU. So at the basic level, you have P/S no matter what. Now if you want to operate factory style then you need to configure Kpro to see the signal from the pump to IDLE UP on the current draw which is PIN E3-25.
There is also a pin on the ECU for turning the pump on and off while the engine is running/off. This pin is E3-19 on the ECU. From what I understand if the Power Steering ECU doesn't see any input on this pin it will just stay on all the time with the car in ACC/ON position. As for any speed variance to Pump pressure adjustments, this is all done between the P/S ECU and the ABS ECU (as the ABS ECU supplies the speed signal).
A/C:
I am working with innovative and when I start my swap will be using a prototype A/C adapter plate. You will want to keep your 1zz compressor as it will be the easiest by far to adapt to work. The K-series compressors are bigger and right now the 1zz one will barely fit.
I will be running wiring straight to the HVAC controls so that I can bypass the Toyota multiplex system and in essence just hard wiring the functions like Honda has in its cars all the way up to 2002. I will be recreating the same system they used in the earlier model civics that did not require any type of digital electronics.
At the back of the Toyota Hvac controls the A/C switch comes out as an analog +12 or Grounded signal that goes to the combo meter where it is processed and sent to the ECU on a multiplex. I will just be wiring straight to this output on the HVAC control and cutting the meter and associated multiplex functions out of the circuit. I will then create a patch harness for the A/C compressor that contains the High/Low switch relays to cut the clutch and also figure out a way to wire a freeze-out switch into this same harness.
Unless I am missing something and by all means correct me. I see that if you completely remove the factory Toyota ECU the only things that will not work are the A/C, Temp gauge, and Some idiot lights and that is it. Everything else can be wired/jumped to function like normal.
The Temp gauge is on multiplex along with some of the idiot lights and A/C. You could make these work using the factory ECU as a multiplex conversion box and feed it the K-swaps sensor signals and hope they are in the same range as factory Toyota's or hook up factory Toyota sensors in addition to the Honda ones on the engine. IE: two oil pressure switches, two temp sensors ETC...
My goal is to make it as streamlined and simple as possible (Wiring/Electronics). That is why I want the Toyota ECU to be completely gone and all functions controlled by the Honda ECU.
Overall I am getting more and more done day by day and hope to start buying parts soon. I wanted to figure out most of the wiring before I even took the first bolt off the car. I'm hoping to have some of the conversion harness already made before I even start working on the car. "
Throttle Cable:
Was informed that if you buy a Cruise Control delete it will allow the factory cable to bolt in no major mods are needed. Getting verification but should be for a 00-04 RSX.
Radiator Hoses: CONFIRMED
He also said that the K-series and the 2zz are very similar in where all the hoses route. Since this is true He has confirmed the fact that in the swap in the lotus all the hoses fit up 99% perfectly.
He said cutting one hose 2 inches is all that is required on the lotus. Since the engine is what determines the placement of hoses then the spyder should be no different than what's required for a 2zz swap.
Heater Hoses: CONFIRMED
Read Radiator Hoses Same applies.
A/C System:
Again BottledFedMR2 is the guy to see, he is working on bringing an A/C bracket to production. He is close to having it ready and I myself will be buying one.
It will use the 1zz compressor, he says it will be a little lower than he would like but it doesn't seem to be a big issue.
Tim said they are in the works to make a bracket for the Lotus with Kswap. So He says he doesn't see why the spyder wouldn't be able to use it. Again like the throttle cable he would need someone to test fit it and confirm or send it back to have it modified till they get it right. But it is doable and not a big issue.
The Lotus has issues with A/C line clearance and he said that is one of the problems they are working on. When I asked him if the Lotus and spyder have very similar bay layouts I didn't know for sure but he said the way the firewalls are the spyder might actually have more room for the lines. Like everything though he can't say for sure.
Exhaust System: CONFIRMED
PPE makes a Header now for MR-2 Spyder with Kswap and is also available through MWR.
The collector size is 2.5" and the overall header is longer than the stock one so will stick out further than the factory.
Still waiting to get info on if you can use a downpipe to make it line up with the rest of the factory system.
Fuel System: CONFIRMED
You will need to run a return of some sort. You will need to also get a fuel regulator. I am still a little iffy on this from a basic swap standpoint because Honda uses a returnless system factory so you might not need to do this if you're just going to OEM performance.
Extra Notes:
I will update this a little more in a few days. I wanted to get something new on here as I have been away from the forums for a while and people might like to see a summary of the events going on with the Kswap. The main thing that is missing is the wiring. Once there is an agreed-upon design that everyone thinks works and is simple as it can be will the swap gets easy enough for everyone.
"Getting closer and closer, Thanks to all who are helping make this a more manageable task for others"
Mounts: Solved
Shifting Mechanism: Solved
Axles: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Wiring: Researching, Updated 3/12/2014
Radiator Hoses: Solved
Heater Hoses: Solved
A/C: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Throttle Cable: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Fuel System: Solved
Exhaust System: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Anti-Lock Brakes: Solved
Power Steering: Solved
General Info: Always Read First...!
Well, I have been gone for a long time and will try to keep this updated. Sorry about the delay as I am in a transition period and can't work on the swap.
Also some really big information the innovative mounts put the engine so far forward that only the PRB intake manifold off of an RSX type S will fit.
BottledFedMR2 has confirmed this and it's been verified. So anything else will require the firewall to be cut or the manifold to be shortened. This sucks but at the same time it's nice to have the engine weight as far forward as possible as it puts it more centered.
I will have CONFIRMED next to everything I know for 100% is correct information.
Mounts: CONFIRMED
Recommends 75 was told by innovative that it's the same as a 65a poly used by
other companies. Theirs is pure poly so 65a could sag over time.
http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=90551
Shifting Mechanism: CONFIRMED
Use the Factory MR2 cables and this bracket will make them interface with no other mods.
http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=50507
**Note: 2006+ Civic SI transmission will require the shift "Arms" off of an RSX type S transmission. You will then be able to
hook up the innovative shift Mechanism as it would be on a normal RSX-type s Transmission.
Axles: CONFIRMED
Axles can be ordered through Drive Shaft Shop they now have part numbers on file though they are not on their website.
Part Number: RA9040x2 and RA9041X2
Wiring:
There is much debate about the wiring so far it's every man for himself. I haven't actually started the physical wiring so I can't confirm anything or have a proven design. There are a few that have completed their swaps and have them running and driving but they all sort of do wiring differently. Monkeywrench racing is working on a full swap kit and will be selling the parts all separately. I talked to them and they will be offering a wiring solution. Right now this is known for a fact!
If you want the car to fully function like a stock spyder you will need to shotgun the ECUs (Factory Toyota ECU and Honda ECU) if you don't care and want to replace your cluster then you can run a straight Honda ECU but don't expect it to be very easy and you will need to know wiring to do it. You will also find it a lot harder to get the A/C running correctly without redesigning the whole A/C wiring system.
Now if you just run the Honda ECU by itself and keep your factory cluster you will lose your TEMP gauge and a few other idiot lights.
Old Info 3/12/2014
ABS:
I have found in theory that the ABS is almost completely independent of the engine control unit there is one wire going to the ECU and from talks with people its a input to tell ecu that ABS is active.
P/S:
The P/S system isn't too much of an issue in my eyes as it will keep running if you don't give it any signal from ECU. So at the basic level, you have P/S no matter what. Now if you want to operate factory style then you need to configure Kpro to see the signal from the pump to IDLE UP on the current draw which is PIN E3-25.
There is also a pin on the ECU for turning the pump on and off while the engine is running/off. This pin is E3-19 on the ECU. From what I understand if the Power Steering ECU doesn't see any input on this pin it will just stay on all the time with the car in ACC/ON position. As for any speed variance to Pump pressure adjustments, this is all done between the P/S ECU and the ABS ECU (as the ABS ECU supplies the speed signal).
A/C:
I am working with innovative and when I start my swap will be using a prototype A/C adapter plate. You will want to keep your 1zz compressor as it will be the easiest by far to adapt to work. The K-series compressors are bigger and right now the 1zz one will barely fit.
I will be running wiring straight to the HVAC controls so that I can bypass the Toyota multiplex system and in essence just hard wiring the functions like Honda has in its cars all the way up to 2002. I will be recreating the same system they used in the earlier model civics that did not require any type of digital electronics.
At the back of the Toyota Hvac controls the A/C switch comes out as an analog +12 or Grounded signal that goes to the combo meter where it is processed and sent to the ECU on a multiplex. I will just be wiring straight to this output on the HVAC control and cutting the meter and associated multiplex functions out of the circuit. I will then create a patch harness for the A/C compressor that contains the High/Low switch relays to cut the clutch and also figure out a way to wire a freeze-out switch into this same harness.
Unless I am missing something and by all means correct me. I see that if you completely remove the factory Toyota ECU the only things that will not work are the A/C, Temp gauge, and Some idiot lights and that is it. Everything else can be wired/jumped to function like normal.
The Temp gauge is on multiplex along with some of the idiot lights and A/C. You could make these work using the factory ECU as a multiplex conversion box and feed it the K-swaps sensor signals and hope they are in the same range as factory Toyota's or hook up factory Toyota sensors in addition to the Honda ones on the engine. IE: two oil pressure switches, two temp sensors ETC...
My goal is to make it as streamlined and simple as possible (Wiring/Electronics). That is why I want the Toyota ECU to be completely gone and all functions controlled by the Honda ECU.
Overall I am getting more and more done day by day and hope to start buying parts soon. I wanted to figure out most of the wiring before I even took the first bolt off the car. I'm hoping to have some of the conversion harness already made before I even start working on the car. "
Throttle Cable:
Was informed that if you buy a Cruise Control delete it will allow the factory cable to bolt in no major mods are needed. Getting verification but should be for a 00-04 RSX.
Radiator Hoses: CONFIRMED
He also said that the K-series and the 2zz are very similar in where all the hoses route. Since this is true He has confirmed the fact that in the swap in the lotus all the hoses fit up 99% perfectly.
He said cutting one hose 2 inches is all that is required on the lotus. Since the engine is what determines the placement of hoses then the spyder should be no different than what's required for a 2zz swap.
Heater Hoses: CONFIRMED
Read Radiator Hoses Same applies.
A/C System:
Again BottledFedMR2 is the guy to see, he is working on bringing an A/C bracket to production. He is close to having it ready and I myself will be buying one.
It will use the 1zz compressor, he says it will be a little lower than he would like but it doesn't seem to be a big issue.
Tim said they are in the works to make a bracket for the Lotus with Kswap. So He says he doesn't see why the spyder wouldn't be able to use it. Again like the throttle cable he would need someone to test fit it and confirm or send it back to have it modified till they get it right. But it is doable and not a big issue.
The Lotus has issues with A/C line clearance and he said that is one of the problems they are working on. When I asked him if the Lotus and spyder have very similar bay layouts I didn't know for sure but he said the way the firewalls are the spyder might actually have more room for the lines. Like everything though he can't say for sure.
Exhaust System: CONFIRMED
PPE makes a Header now for MR-2 Spyder with Kswap and is also available through MWR.
The collector size is 2.5" and the overall header is longer than the stock one so will stick out further than the factory.
Still waiting to get info on if you can use a downpipe to make it line up with the rest of the factory system.
Fuel System: CONFIRMED
You will need to run a return of some sort. You will need to also get a fuel regulator. I am still a little iffy on this from a basic swap standpoint because Honda uses a returnless system factory so you might not need to do this if you're just going to OEM performance.
Extra Notes:
I will update this a little more in a few days. I wanted to get something new on here as I have been away from the forums for a while and people might like to see a summary of the events going on with the Kswap. The main thing that is missing is the wiring. Once there is an agreed-upon design that everyone thinks works and is simple as it can be will the swap gets easy enough for everyone.
biggrin-new
