@20v_lover PRB is very compact. You should try a modded RBB. You wouldn't think twice about going back to any of the others, especially on a k24.

If you want cheap RSP's, search ebay.co.uk . Normally $200-300 shipped.

 

So with these hubs do the RSX Type S driveshafts have the correct length or is there another OE K series set of driveshafts that are the correct length? I have a set of Type S driveshafts but I haven’t hung the motor in the chassis yet so I can’t check. This does sound like the path I would try go down, especially if I already have the right axles.

 

That is something i have not verified yet as iam waiting for customs to release my parts that i ordered.
But from what i can see is that there is a spacer with the shaft which from what i can see fits between the outer and the hub.

I also assume these are based on the longer shaft because most of these swaps was done with the shorter intermediate shaft. They do sell the shafts they are currently using in their car as well for a fairly cheap rate that is the correct size.

I would most be making up stronger spare shafts as well and will change it at the track. This was the first time ever that i could not drive my car home from the track and i do not want a repeat lol esp for the same part.

 

You can have working speedo without abs. You have to pull the signal from the VSS output of the K20 ecu and run it to the combination meter.

Please post updates regarding your axles. The benefits of the n1-source axles are thickness and (mostly) price. If stock Honda axles can be used I'd buy the hubs in a second.

Only if your using the rsx trans. Most guys opt for the civic si trans which you can use the vss from a 02-04 rsx but you need to open the case and install the countershaft ring (cheap part) then tap and drill some holes for the sensor to mount.

The hubs they make do use the honda axles. I have to make custom axles because 99% of these swap are done in a garage for weekend warrariors who dont have a press. My theory is if i can make a set of reliable treated axles for a sustained 600 whp. The ease of the swap will be maintained. Otherwise your looking at $250 for hubs, then bearings and axles and labor. Likely more than 450 total cost

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

Only if your using the rsx trans. Most guys opt for the civic si trans which you can use the vss from a 02-04 rsx but you need to open the case and install the countershaft ring (cheap part) then tap and drill some holes for the sensor to mount.

This is not correct. The signal for the VSS to the MR-S multiplexor can come from multiple locations. In all instances, the multiplexor needs to see a pulsed signal which, in stock form, comes from the Hall sensors on the wheels and is combined into one via the abs module:


1) For 02-04 ECU, the signal can be taken from pin 3 of the C101 plug and sent directly to the MR-S multiplexor.

2) Just because you use Civic Si transmission does not mean you cannot get a VSS signal. The VSS signal is mandatory for VTEC to work. Only with KPro can you bypass this by setting the VSS signal to always be 65mph. The downside to this technique (we use it on one of our race cars) is that the reverse lockout is always engaged.

If, unlike above with the 02-04 ecu, you use an 05-06 RSX ecu (which is not supported by Hondata), you can take the VSS out signal from ECU pin E26 and send it directly to the MR-S multiplexor.

3) The pulsed signal can also come directly from one of the wheel sensors. You would just have to tap into one of the wires. This is how aftermarket ABS and traction control systems work. It would be recommended to pull the signal from a rear wheel sensor. The signal can be sent directly to the multiplexor.

A Dakota Digital can be used to correct the speedo reading for incorrect pulses and tire diameters.



The benefit of using stock Honda axles is that, after the initial cost, replacements are inexpensive and reliable. We have endurance raced OEM Honda axles in 3hr, 6hr, and 25hr races for multiple years without failure.

I still need to buy a set of your Wilwood kits f&r, but I'm in the middle of some other testing first.

 

We have started making our own axles to combat that DSS issue. They are not ready yet but I have ordered 200 sets. Prices at $450 a set. The hub using the rsx is a great idea but off the shelf axles do brake. Im trying to make a simple solution by fixing the problem and addressing it and not re-inventing the wheel. Its like the same problem as the Innovative mounts

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If your tapping directly from the sensor to the speedo then it will register but 06+ civic uses a different vss than 02-04, the frequency isnt the same thetefore if your looking to engage rev lock, launch control and other funcation your going to do the above I listed. I assumed you would tap it at the ecu

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Oil cooler is mandatory on k24 and k20. They will both hit 240° within a couple minutes without one. If you think that's high, you shoul measure the tranny. (Change your fluids)

We have never run a tranny cooler, but we race with 75W90 gear oil which is the equivalent of a 30W engine oil but with high pressure additives. These additives are known to attack brass and bronze ("yellow" metals), so consider this for a dd. Fluid swaps are easy.

For anyone using a LSD, Amsoil and Honda synchromesh fluids are not compatible with clutch types.

 

Oil cooler is mandatory on k24 and k20. They will both hit 240° within a couple minutes without one. If you think that's high, you shoul measure the tranny. (Change your fluids)

We have never run a tranny cooler, but we race with 75W90 gear oil which is the equivalent of a 30W engine oil but with high pressure additives. These additives are known to attack brass and bronze ("yellow" metals), so consider this for a dd. Fluid swaps are easy.

For anyone using a LSD, Amsoil and Honda synchromesh fluids are not compatible with clutch types.

I was expecting to need to do the oil cooler, but was hoping the larger sump in the Moroso pan would be enough to not need it... Oh well, was probably going to drop the engine over the winter anyways to rebuild the transmission (really should have just done that from the start).

Granted it was a cool day, but I ran Amsoil Synchromesh without issues on track. What's the advantage of running a 75W90 gear oil over a Synchromesh oil? If these heavier weight oils attack brass/bronze, wouldn't I want to avoid it? (I thought the synchros were brass?)

 

Yes the synchros are sintered. I'm jist about to break in and test carbon Suncrotexh synchros. Going thru a long procedure to prep them before install and then break them in mo load.

The Amsoil gear oil is designed for high temps and pressures which the tranny will see. Many people on k20a have reported 280°+ with no cooler.

Although the additives are supposed to be aggressive and attack the synchros, we have not seen this problem at all. These trannies are race only no dd. Rebuilds happen when we have an issue. Otherwise they are not touched.

As for axles, if a "1000hp" axle really did support that level of power, it won't be any stronger than other axles when a boot tears and the cv fails from dirt and contamination.

We have had aftermarket Honda axles from a very well known manufacturer fail. They forgot to grease the cv, but that is not where it failed. The shaft broke at the splines most likely from a material defect.

The only failure we have had on an OEM axle was due to poor cv angle on a swap which was corrected.

All axles will fail. WHEN - not if - they do, I would rather pay much less for a high quality proven OEM Honda axle than $500-700 for an aftermarket set.

High price, alone, precludes people from having spares. The last thing you want at the track is to have a failure and spend the rest of the day staring at the car if there was an inexpensive spare option available.

 

Yes the synchros are sintered. I'm jist about to break in and test carbon Suncrotexh synchros. Going thru a long procedure to prep them before install and then break them in mo load.

The Amsoil gear oil is designed for high temps and pressures which the tranny will see. Many people on k20a have reported 280°+ with no cooler.

Although the additives are supposed to be aggressive and attack the synchros, we have not seen this problem at all. These trannies are race only no dd. Rebuilds happen when we have an issue. Otherwise they are not touched.

As for axles, if a "1000hp" axle really did support that level of power, it won't be any stronger than other axles when a boot tears and the cv fails from dirt and contamination.

We have had aftermarket Honda axles from a very well known manufacturer fail. They forgot to grease the cv, but that is not where it failed. The shaft broke at the splines most likely from a material defect.

The only failure we have had on an OEM axle was due to poor cv angle on a swap which was corrected.

All axles will fail. WHEN - not if - they do, I would rather pay much less for a high quality proven OEM Honda axle than $500-700 for an aftermarket set.

High price, alone, precludes people from having spares. The last thing you want at the track is to have a failure and spend the rest of the day staring at the car if there was an inexpensive spare option available.

That's good to know. I will say the Amsoil Synchromesh did hold up better than the oil I picked up from the parts store. With the first oil shifting would get interesting once it got hot, but the new oil has been fine. Since my car will still see some normal driving I'll probably keep using Amsoil unless I have an issue. Of course if I tear it down and see more damage than I expect, I may change my opinion on that point.

On the axles... Really wish I knew about those hubs when doing the swap originally. Spare axles aren't an option with the swap axles, but a set of OE axles are cheap enough that it makes perfect sense to keep a second set on hand. I'm not making crazy power, don't really have an intention to ever go beyond 250whp, so even Honda OE are more than enough.

 

I have had good luck with the Insane axles on my swap; and I haven't heard of anyone having failures.

Dave

 

Good to hear, but at an endurance race weekend we can't be without spares on a race weekend. The other benefit to many people is that stock axles are common parts. If you need a replacement cheap to get by, go to CL/PickNPull/etc. For racing it makes it great to reduce spares. One set for the Hondas or MR2 is great.

@TheBerrynator Amsoil syncromesh is excellent. I run it now. Only switching to their gear oil because Syncromesh is not compatible with clutch type LSD. We race Amsoil Dominator oils. Oil runs 10-20° cooler and doesn't burn off. Maybe 1-1.5qt over a 25hr race.

 

The dss shafts seems to be very hard already. There is no twists on the splines just a clean break.

I still feel that the thickness of the outer splines is too thin and the only way to really strengthen it is to use a thicker size spline.

My biggest issue is that the dss shafts are rated at over 380 bhp and i am only making 280 roughly on the fly. I feel they need to drop the rating or fix the hercules heel on the drive shaft.

What i have found.
The hubs i purchased uses the Honda wheel studs i do not know why he did it that way. I had it drilled and using the oem Toyota studs from the old hub.The Toyota wheel spigot ring also didn't fit so i have that machined as well. Will just see which kseries shafts i need to use. I know the FN2 and TSX ones we have here are different lengths.

Will also be fixing my head gasket and upgrading too the crower stage 3 cams at the same time. Will kep you guys updated.

 

The gear oil with "high pressure additives" attacking synchros is a little confusing and conflicting considering many OEM's use gear oil in their manual transmissions like my Mazda 3. I have not researched this further other than to say we have successfully used gear oil in our race cars, Amsoil Synchromesh in non-LSD cars, and gear oil in standard OEM Mazda transmission from the factory without issue.


Axles rated at "300hp" "500hp" or "1000hp" are just marketing hype. If they have not been tested to failure, then the best they can do is estimate per calculations via metallurgy, tensile strength, and input torque (which varies greatly based on gearing). Materials vary greatly. You cannot "feel" a metal. Some are brittle, others more ductile. Manufacturing and heat treating play important roles in the characteristics of the metal. Simply having the correct ratios of elements also does not mean it was manufactured correctly. Number of inclusions based on processing (single/double/triple melt, VIM/VAR/ESR for ex) make a big difference. Yes, I'm an engineer and study metals.

 

I fully agree with you but surely if guys are breaking these axles with not even 200 bhp then theres an issue and clearly cannot be marketed as 380 bhp.

For the price they charging i would have expected a stronger shaft or revision of it.

Anyway the tsx shafts seems to be the correct length with the use of the shorter half shaft, there might also be a way to
make the ABS speed ring work. I sent the shaft, abs reader and hub back to my buddy and he will try and sort something out for me. but so far it looks very promising. Will keep you guys updated.

 

@20v_lover Can you confirm if those hubs can use stock Honda axles, and if so which ones? I emailed them and never received a reply.

 

They actually supply the part numbers on the page i got will post pics here. But it does take the oem ones. You need to remove some material on the abs mount to allow the bigger cv outers to fit. I tested them with tsx shafts.

 

Iam fixing the one side first to check how they hold up.

 

Hey All, new to the k-swap journey. Could anyone tell me if the Y2M3 (ITR DC5) is too big for the swap? when I was researching DC5, I'm not sure if I made the mistake of getting the ITR tranny instead of RSX Type S tranny. I'm having some fitment issues and before I go and buy a new tranny, I would like to confirm... if possible?

 

K series tanny internals are identical and interchangeable between the 5 and 6 speeds. The gears are like Legos - pick what you like.

Honda made three different cases - rsx, civic, and I think tsx/accord use the 3rd.

 

Thanks! So basically the my trans should work. I guess my frame flexed and the engine mounts don’t line up at the moment.

 

Bill is correct the INTERNAL are the same, I do not know if the external housing and mounting points are the same. Why are you going with a euro version when we know the USDM works.

Additionally have you check to see if the other two mounts line up? If the other 3 attaching to the trans line up then the mounting points are the same. If you can only get 1 mount in then I am assuming your frame is bent as discussed or that trans external stuff is different from the USDM trans like the accord was.

If you frame is bent, I would suggest fixing it, if not you'll need to drill custom holes in the mount to get it to fit

 

Hi,

Got these outer cv's machined with the ABS ring on it. Will have to test and see if it reads correctly. The outers cost me
50 dollars each to purchase and have it machined. I had 2 done will test and purchase another 2 if the first set woks fine for a second set of shafts.

The testing is going to take slightly longer than expected because i got offered money for my motor and accepted it so i need to remove it and install my spare motor i have.

But it seems to be very inexpensive to maintain and to have an extra set of shafts. The outer cv is very easy to fix if it should break just hope its more robust than the dss set.

 

Small update.
I fixed my broken dss shaft with one of the outers I had machined.
Turns out the kseries outers is a direct fit on the dss shaft. 👌

Stock accord tsx shaft and fixed dss shaft also in the pic.

 

update.

Both my dss shafts has Kseries outers fitted now with the new hubs on and driving.

2 things I picked up was that because the ring spacer is there it takes away of the axle nuts thread to tighten the axle and you cannot lock the nut either. I just used lock tight and tightened it. I will use tipex to mark where the nut is now to make sure it does not move. The spacer is causing this, and the reason the spacer is used is because the kseries outer cup is so much bigger in diameter compared to the stock ones it would not fit. That's why you have to slightly grind on the abs holder. I elected to rather machine the outer cv like the pics I posted because I was going to machine it anyway to fit the abs speed ring.

Then the other thing is that once you fit the brake disk it sits flush on the hub. So you cannot use a mag wheel spigot ring on it there's no ridge to fit it on. I was going to fit wheel spacers anyway so this is not a problem for me.


Other than that the car is driving fine no weird noises ABS works fine so is my speedo
I have a spare set of complete shafts as well now that i can take to the track

I cant do any launches or hard shifting yet need to road tune the car first.

Pic attached shows both issues. The nut was not tightened here yet but its not that much of a difference when tightened.

This could have been taken care of if it was done right.

 

Wish I had waited for these hubs, I bought a set of DSS shafts for $900. Hubs and a set of Honda shafts would be half that and I could break them all day long and replacements are $170 a pair.

 

Anyone know anyone in South Florida (tri-county) that works on Mr2 K24 swaps? Having some issues starting after putting everything in.

 

Not anywhere close so I can't help in person, but I did just finish the swap. What issues are you having? Electrical?

 

Assuming you have kpro are you able to connect to kpro with a laptop with ignition on?

Are you using the MAP swap harness? If so did you follow the instructions for the P&P harness? (linked below)

DOWNLOADS/INSTALL GUIDES

ACCM (Air Conditioning Control Module) Install Guide V1 (DISCONTINUED) MIM Install Guide V3 (w/ MAP Engine harness) MiM Install Guide V3 (w/ OEM Engine harness) MIM Install Guide V1 (With ACCM) (DISCONTINUED) MIM Troubleshooting Guide -5/30/23 BottledFedMR2 K Series P'N'P Harness Install Guide...

www.mitchsautoparts.com

 

Assuming you have kpro are you able to connect to kpro with a laptop with ignition on?

Are you using the MAP swap harness? If so did you follow the instructions for the P&P harness? (linked below)

DOWNLOADS/INSTALL GUIDES

ACCM (Air Conditioning Control Module) Install Guide V1 (DISCONTINUED) MIM Install Guide V3 (w/ MAP Engine harness) MiM Install Guide V3 (w/ OEM Engine harness) MIM Install Guide V1 (With ACCM) (DISCONTINUED) MIM Troubleshooting Guide -5/30/23 BottledFedMR2 K Series P'N'P Harness Install Guide...

www.mitchsautoparts.com

Yes the kpro connects with/without the ignition on. I have the P&P harness and installed based off the instructions. I also checked the connector terminal where 12v should be sent to the starter. I don't get 12v when I turn the key. I'm not able to find a wiring diagram for 2002 MR2 ignition system

 

Also here's the full list.... Starting and IG is also relevant here....

Index of /car/Toyota/mr2 spyder/Repair Information/Wiring Diagrams/09 - System Circuits

 

Morning guys,

I see water cooling has been discussed in great lengths. I have an issue with my car currently where it seems as if the water is not circulating fast enough. It tends to create air in the system and I see Temps of 205 until the fan comes in. When I drive the car the Temps drop to about 190 195 but as soon as i give it stick it rises again.i would like to solve the issue before I blow a gasket.

I see some of the guys are running ewp, has this solved your issue or is there an easier solution. The motor I fitted makes about 300 bhp.


Update on the hubs and axles.
I checked the markers I made to see if the locking nut has moved at all and so far it has not.
I have done a couple of hard launches and very hard gear selection and it's holding up just fine. I will only be able to test the cv s at the track in December again but I will try and make sure I have drag slicks on to test them properly.

 

... I have an issue with my car currently where it seems as if the water is not circulating fast enough. It tends to create air in the system and I see Temps of 205 until the fan comes in...

I have no idea what you are talking about here. 205F sounds normal. Coolant circulation cannot create air. Air in the system would be a problem, but it would either be air that was never removed from the system in the first place, or it would be air that came in through a leak. Slow circulation could result in local boiling, but you are not presenting evidence for that.

 

Hey Guys,

Has anyone ran into an issue with the fuel pump not turning on with ignition? I traced down the wiring and it seems that I get 12v on the R-W to pin 1 on the C/OPEN relay, but the relay doesn't open. So I'm guessing it has to do with the G-R that goes to the PNP harness to the ECU. If I jump the relay, I get the fuel pump to turn on, and I have also tested the relay itself--it does work. Any thoughts?

Also would it be a problem if I just bypassed that relay all together, or it needs to be connected to the ecu?

 

.. would it be a problem if I just bypassed that relay all together, or it needs to be connected to the ecu?

That relay is there in case you crash the car and can't turn off the ignition, so that the pump won't unload the tank into the wreckage. Even if you are dead and gone, there could be a rescue crew there when the car blows up in a fireball.

It makes sense to jump the relay for testing and troubleshooting, but I wouldn't want to drive that way.

 

I just recently changed my thermostat and radiator. Just for shits and giggles, i boiled the old oem and new oem thermostats. While the old one still opened, it opened only about 1/4-1/3 of the way of the new one. No wonder my fans kept coming on to control the temps, a leaking radiator didn't help either.

So if you guys still have the oem thermostat that came with your junkyard/jdm motor, maybe its time to change it for better efficiency.

 

Has anyone used a Honda shifter and cable setup for one of these swaps? I've heard rumors but never seen any pictures or description of how its done/if its possible.

 

The Civic Si 06+ is noticeably smoother, but I don't think it's enough of a difference to make it worth modifying and adapting cable lengths to fit. This is from race experience Civic ball style shift cage vs old crx shift cahe which is nearly identical to the Celica/MRS.

Adding the counterweight back makes a much bigger improvement. A 0.5"x1.0"x3" piece of bar stock welded perpendicular to where the rsx-s weight was cut off fits perfectly. It's similar to Civic counterweight, perpendicular to the direction of the rsx.