Do any of you have guys have dyno sheets of your various setups.
And mod lists in one thread?

Just something I saw that has been done on other forums to see what the power curve looks like between the different setups as well as the power the cars are making.

I have read through the posts regarding headers as well and wanted to find out which header most of the guys are using.

Just and update on the dss shafts with the kseries outers and n source hubs . They have been holding up this far no issues to report. I will test it at the track on the 16th December with a set of 24.5 13s Hoosier drag slicks. Hopefully they hold up.

 

Do any of you have guys have dyno sheets of your various setups.
And mod lists in one thread?

Just something I saw that has been done on other forums to see what the power curve looks like between the different setups as well as the power the cars are making.

I have read through the posts regarding headers as well and wanted to find out which header most of the guys are using.

Just and update on the dss shafts with the kseries outers and n source hubs . They have been holding up this far no issues to report. I will test it at the track on the 16th December with a set of 24.5 13s Hoosier drag slicks. Hopefully they hold up.

Here's my dyno sheet from the summer. K24A2, PPE header, Type S oil pump & RDX injectors, otherwise stock. Tuner recommended upgrading the intake manifold and cam gear.

Final numbers were 199/169. I need to redo the intake to reduce intake temps, it's on the list of things to do this winter. Tuner was Pure Tuning in Toledo if anyone is wondering.

 

Morning Guys,

I did the test and tune one the 16th unprepped track.
Managed a 1.8 60ft and 12.3 @181.
The shafts held up great and took all the abuse i threw at it. I managed a total of 8 runs and on the 9th i stripped second gear this is when the track heated up and the first time second gear gripped.The previous runs
i had bad wheel spin going to second and third.

Need todo some research now on how to resolve the latest issue.

The hubs and kesries outers work and should never give any issues for most of the guys unless you going to make huge power which majority of us wont be doing.

 

Those numbers are pretty low. You don't mention what year k24a2. It's on the engine vin tag. The 10th digit will correspond to the year: 4=2004, 5=2005, etc.

04-05 k24a2's came with some of the smallest cams. 06-08 have the biggest exhaust cams. 09+ are bigger, but the cam is 5mm shorter and has to be used with 09+ vtc to compensate for the length. For stock cams it's common to mix and match with k20a/a2/z3 cams. Nobody runs 04-05 stock cams if given a choice.

If you're running an RBB (takes some massaging but mine fits fine) I would keep it for the torque. You can also increase the plenum volume so that it keeps making power to 8500, though stock i wouldn't spin above 7500 for street engine.

Pick up a 50° VTC gear. Same one used on k20a2 and k20a3. K24A2 is really limited by its 25° VTC.

 

Those numbers are pretty low. You don't mention what year k24a2. It's on the engine vin tag. The 10th digit will correspond to the year: 4=2004, 5=2005, etc.

04-05 k24a2's came with some of the smallest cams. 06-08 have the biggest exhaust cams. 09+ are bigger, but the cam is 5mm shorter and has to be used with 09+ vtc to compensate for the length. For stock cams it's common to mix and match with k20a/a2/z3 cams. Nobody runs 04-05 stock cams if given a choice.

If you're running an RBB (takes some massaging but mine fits fine) I would keep it for the torque. You can also increase the plenum volume so that it keeps making power to 8500, though stock i wouldn't spin above 7500 for street engine.

Pick up a 50° VTC gear. Same one used on k20a2 and k20a3. K24A2 is really limited by its 25° VTC.

It's an 08. From what I've seen those numbers are more or less in line with what I should expect with what I have. It was a hot day and I was seeing very high intake temps, so I'm sure I was losing a bit there as well. I'd like more power of course, but it's more money and not high on the priority list.

 

I agree. Stock TSX will dyno ~185/150. The 25° VTC is severely limiting. Even a stock K20a2 tune is almost always 30°+ VTC cruising.

For reference, I've logged IAT's at idle and cruise. Even on hot summer day, IAT's drop quickly as soon as you start moving. But, on an 80° day at a stop light IAT's will creep up to 100-110° if you have a short ram and the filter isn't sealed off from engine bay. On a dyno it's going to be much worse. Can get some heat removed with a fan at the back as well.

 

We race Kaaz in scca and nasa. They've been bulletproof. We'll see how it works on mine rwd.

Break in procedure sounds like the tranny is exploding. Operation is quiet once broken in.

 

What is the benefit of using the Karcepts cruise control delete vs using the oem cruise control pulley to attach the throttle cable? Is the diameter the same for each?

 

I am using the cruise delete. I think the only real benefit is cleaning up the pulley, that is to say getting rid of parts that you are not using (and it looks a bit neater)

Dave

 

I'm researching k swap options and this thread is fantastic. I haven't read all 99 pages... but is there a strong reason to use an 02-04 vs 05-06 RSX Type S trans? I know the gearing is quite different (k-series Transmission Gear Ratio Table), and I think the 02-04 gearing would work better for me, but does either one easier to swap in? I would guess the 02-04, but just double checking. Thanks!

 

I'm researching k swap options and this thread is fantastic. I haven't read all 99 pages... but is there a strong reason to use an 02-04 vs 05-06 RSX Type S trans? I know the gearing is quite different (k-series Transmission Gear Ratio Table), and I think the 02-04 gearing would work better for me, but does either one easier to swap in? I would guess the 02-04, but just double checking. Thanks!

Well, this question is now moot, as I ended up grabbing an 07 Civic SI trans with an LSD. Looks like Mitch's has a kit that will work with it, so hopefully not a bad buy haha.

 

05-06 Type S has shorter gearing than the 02-04 and the speed sensor is on the front instead of the rear (signal is also different). 06-11 Civic Si has a different shift arm layout, a longer 6th than the 05-06, and an LSD.

 

Is anyone using a PLM header modified with success? I imagine they are the same as the k-tuned swap headers? Which PLM headers easily clear the rear subframe? I just threw a k24 into my EP3 track car and picked up an MR-S for a fun street car.

 

Is anyone using a PLM header modified with success? I imagine they are the same as the k-tuned swap headers? Which PLM headers easily clear the rear subframe? I just threw a k24 into my EP3 track car and picked up an MR-S for a fun street car.

View attachment 82309 View attachment 82308

It's doesn't just tried this weekend

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

 

I added it to the ecu side, and then just tapped it into the other brown/yellow wires on the A plug.

before you do that, do you have 12v at the ecu pin E1? If you do, then the ecu is not providing ground to turn on the fuel pump relay. Youre heading down the right path in that you now know what’s not happening, next would be to find out why.
All that the MAP wiring change (cut and tap) does is change voltage from one side to the other on the EFI relay control circuit. The ground to trigger the relay comes when e1 drops to ground.

 

The controll circuit for fuel pump command comes from battery, through AM2 fuse (15A) , through ignition Switch IG2, now on red/white wire to C/OPN (fuel pump) relay, out on green/red wire to A3, this is all on the Toyota harness. A3 need to see ground to turn on fuel pump. A3 should run to ecu E1.

power to the pump is on a black wire at A16 on Toyota harness, passes through relay, through pump to ground. BLACK WIRE IS NOT GROUND ..learned that the hard way

for the efi relay, the white/black wire, which went to ground, now has 12v from efi1 (15a fuse)(yellow wire) The grey wire going to B21 on Toyota harness need to see ground when key Is on.

 

If you want to confirm your fuel pump circuit, run a temporary jumper from ground to A3 (green/red) , and cycle the key on. If your pump turns on, all the other wiring is good except grounds to ecu or ecu blew a transistor

 

Hey Guys,

I am just researching the MR2/K swap info and wanted to know how are the quality of the MAP swap kit parts. Has anyone used it for a prolonged period of time? How has the mounts and shifter linkages held up to tracking abuse? I love the idea of K swapping a MR2 but only if swap package is robust enough to handle track work. I appreciate any comments/feedbacks.

Thanks.

 

I've done a few track days on mine with a K24. No issues so far in that regard. There were fitment issues with the mounts with the initial install, and I received the wrong oil pump chain. Overall, I would still recommend MAP. Brandon over there is super-helpful, and overall quality was pretty good.

A big disclaimer though- I used the Civic SI transmission with seems to have a more stout adapter on the transmission side. I don't believe that adapter is available anymore.

 

Thanks for responding. Can you elaborate what where the fitment issues and how were they remedied? Thanks.

 

Not the person you are replying to, but in my case I had issues with the motor mounts not all lining up. Could just be my car, but I needed to modify the front mount and add a spacer to make it fit.

Also, not sure if it's the case for a K20, but if you run a K24 you will need an oil cooler for track use. Pre oil cooler I'd hit 280° on track within 15 minutes, even with cooler ambient tenps. With the cooler installed my steady state temperature seems to be around 240°. I didn't do any ductwork or add fans, so I'm sure I could get it lower if I tried.

 

Again, thanks for the insight, How long have you had the swap and how many track events? I don't own a spyder yet but l will only be buying the car to drop a K24 in it . If the parts are not robust, I will scrap the entire idea.

And regarding oil temps, it isn't oil temps that will kill your engine, it's oil pressure. Did you measure what were the pressures at 280F? The S2000 guys can be tracking their F20s @ 280F for 80+ events without issues. For a dedicated race car, I agree 100% to go with an oil cooler but for the causal HDPE car, I am not completely sold on it given that it does introduced more potential failure points (leaks) and in some cases, causes over cooling for street use.

 

The swap parts are not refined, however if you are handy everything can be made to work. I had a couple fitment issues also with the mounts, grinder, dremel, drill etc. can handle it. the shifting mechanism is probably the worst, it needs some bracing, as shifting through the gears causes the cable bracket to bend and ends up in missed gears... there were some issues with the shifter mechanisms and brackets breaking because of lack of welds, which supposedly has now been remedied, but as far as I know the bracing has not been added to the cable bracket, which helps shifter feel tremendously.

It's a pretty easy swap for someone with some mechanical knowledge as far as swapping an engine from a different manufacturer goes

 

The swap parts are not refined, however if you are handy everything can be made to work. I had a couple fitment issues also with the mounts, grinder, dremel, drill etc. can handle it. the shifting mechanism is probably the worst, it needs some bracing, as shifting through the gears causes the cable bracket to bend and ends up in missed gears... there were some issues with the shifter mechanisms and brackets breaking because of lack of welds, which supposedly has now been remedied, but as far as I know the bracing has not been added to the cable bracket, which helps shifter feel tremendously.

It's a pretty easy swap for someone with some mechanical knowledge as far as swapping an engine from a different manufacturer goes

Are you referring to the RSX shifter or the later (Civic) type shifter? As far as I know, using the later transmission yields Honda factory-like shifter quality. I am using the Innovative shifter adapter on a RSX gearbox and the result is great, but I spent a lot of time shimming all of the link connections to minimize fee-play.

Dave

 

doing the streetable track car or trackable street car thing is a balancing act. I do however think an oil cooler is a worthwhile addition on the k24. As long as you aren't running the oil cooler in the front, you won't notice a pressure drop. It's not something that you need to do right away, but I would add one before a track day.

 

Has anyone completely sheared the long stud off the right engine bracket?

I didn't have the front mount (tranny to firewall) and hoping adding this will eliminate this from happening again.

 

Has anyone completely sheared the long stud off the right engine bracket?

I didn't have the front mount (tranny to firewall) and hoping adding this will eliminate this from happening again.

nope….mine is a bolt not a stud. Can you just extract it and use a bolt?

 

the map mounts retain the oem toyota passenger side engine mount, driver side transmission mount, and rear engine mount. I have added a poly insert to the rear engine mount and a 75a innovative rsx front mount. I have no vibration, and my engine does not rock enough to make the ac compressor contact the firewall without massaging

 

Another topic, what engine/charge harnesses did everyone use? I have been reading that the 02-04 base RSX harness will also work with little modifications. As well, any comments on the MAP driveshafts? Are they reliable enough?

 

You can use an 02-04 rsx type s harness, 02-04 rsx base harness or an 02-05 Ep3 engine harness. I am using an Ep3 harness. No modifications are necessary to the base or Ep3 harness they are only missing the plug for reverse lock out. I have a write up for adding reverse lock out to 5 speed harnesses and 5 speed ecu’s if you go that route

 

I believe you rewire the secondary intake runner of the intake manifold plug (found on the RSX base harness) for the reverse lockout, is this correct? Can you please send me the write up? Thank you very much.

However, if i pursue this swap, i will be using a 5 speed, PDN ecu as those are far more plentiful on the market. But i think aside from getting a KPro installed, nothing else is required for the EC.

 

you can do it that way with the base rsx harness. The Ep3 harness does not have that plug. I am using e21 evap vsv pin to control it.
I am also using an Ep3 ecu. There is nothing wrong with the 5spd ecu’s just need to use a different output for reverse lock.

I’ll send the write up tomorrow it’s on the work computer

 

It may be half-assed, but I just ran a wire from the lockout solenoid to a rocker switch I put in a spare slot in the dash.

 

If you are using the k24 you will either need to de pin the crank sensor connector from the k24 engine and repin the connector onto the rsx harness with the wires in the same orientation as they were the k24, and you will need to do the same with the knock sensor. Or you can replace the sensors with rsx units

on the charge harness, if you are using a k24 starter, you will need to use the k24 starter signal connector on the rsx charge harness

the engine harness has 1 plug that goes to the conversion harness, the conversion harness has 1 plug that goes to the ecu, the rest are body harness connections.

The mim is totally separate and gets hard wired into the necessary connections


there are currently 3 axle options stateside that I know of. Drive shaft shop, insane shaft, or N1 source adapter hubs to use honda axles

 

If you are using the k24 you will either need to de pin the crank sensor connector from the k24 engine and repin the connector onto the rsx harness with the wires in the same orientation as they were the k24, and you will need to do the same with the knock sensor. Or you can replace the sensors with rsx units

on the charge harness, if you are using a k24 starter, you will need to use the k24 starter signal connector on the rsx charge harness

the engine harness has 1 plug that goes to the conversion harness, the conversion harness has 1 plug that goes to the ecu, the rest are body harness connections.

The mim is totally separate and gets hard wired into the necessary connections


there are currently 3 axle options stateside that I know of. Drive shaft shop, insane shaft, or N1 source adapter hubs to use honda axles

Thanks. Yes K24 will be the engine choice as K20s are too expensive and makes less power for the same money. I was aware that I needed to rewire the crank sensor but I didn't know I can also rewire the knock sensor. Was told that I needed to buy a K20 knock sensor. This is good info.

Regarding the starter connector, where would you be able to get a K24 starter connector? Or, can I use a K20 starter instead? I think I will need a K20 alternator for the same reason. In addition, I think I will need a K20 water pump housing and a EP idler pulley.

Sounds like the MAP wiring harness, ECU, engine harness and chassis harness are all PnP. The only other work is hardwiring the MIM.

Ah, that is what DDS stands for and from my reading, they are not very good. Insane shafts is what MAP offers but seems quite pricey. I am also aware of the N1 source adapter hubs but I didn't think they were plug and play? Sounds like there was some machining that was required?

K Swap 3rd Gen Toyota MR2 Spyder Rear Wheel Hub

Check out the high performance N1 Source Custom Rear Wheel Hub Set for K-Swapped K20 K24 Toyota MR2's.

n1-source.com

 

Regarding the axles, passenger side stock rsx-s and driver's side 06+ civic si are the correct lengths to use stock Honda axles.

The outer hubs would need to be turned down to clear the spindle and to mount a (70mm ID / 80mm OD I believe?) tone ring. This would allow you to use the N1 Source adapter hubs, stock Honda axles, and still have ABS (the spacer would not be needed).

I haven't had time to do this yet.

 

So from my understanding, DDS and Insane shafts are both PnP. However, after seeing the prices of the DDS, it's kind of "Insane". And I have read reports that some people are snapping them. But will i be able to retain full ABS functions if using these shafts? The 3rd option is the use of the N1 hubs along with some combo of OE Honda shafts. It sounds like there are a couple of Honda OE driveshaft options as outlines by Bi Doe and TeeMS.

Regarding the axles, passenger side stock rsx-s and driver's side 06+ civic si are the correct lengths to use stock Honda axles.

The outer hubs would need to be turned down to clear the spindle and to mount a (70mm ID / 80mm OD I believe?) tone ring. This would allow you to use the N1 Source adapter hubs, stock Honda axles, and still have ABS (the spacer would not be needed).

I haven't had time to do this yet.

Can you clear up what axles can be used? Do i need:

• 2 x passenger side stock rsx-s or
• 2 x driver's side 06+ civic si or
• I need one of each? If so, which model axle for which side on the MR2 chassis?

And what do you mean by "The outer hubs would need to be turned down to clear the spindle and to mount a (70mm ID / 80mm OD I believe?) tone ring". Are you modifying the N1 hub or the knuckle/spindle?

I used 2 right side TSX axles, and swapped the inner join to a male for the driver side. No grinding, no spacers. Then I tapped my rear abs sensor wires into the fronts. In theory this should defeat the dreaded "ice mode" that I have heard about, Haven't been in the situation yet.

If i understand this correctly, you purchased three 04-08 TSX passenger side axels, used one as is and completed surgery on the other two to make 1 axle. Is this correct? Can you elaborate how you combined 2 axles into 1? If so, which side on the MR2 chassis was used as is and which side required the 2 to 1 axle? And i think this solution doesn't offer a "tone ring" which is required for ABS hence so you just rewired the rear ABS sensors to read from the front. But i think technically, this is really tricking the computer and you will not actually have rear wheel abs function, is this correct?

BTW, thank you both for providing your insight to my questions. Again, sorry for all the questions, just need to get a good understanding to see what i am getting myself into. Thanks.

 

I used 2 right side TSX axles, and swapped the inner join to a male for the driver side. No grinding, no spacers. Then I tapped my rear abs sensor wires into the fronts. In theory this should defeat the dreaded "ice mode" that I have heard about, Haven't been in the situation yet.