P.S. I'm not worried about having to cut anything for the supercharger, so that is not a factor.

 

Turbo!

 

well, what are your power goals?

 

Are there any restrictions on what you run, in whatever class or anything concerning the engine, other than safety? Do you have any experance with FI with any car Spyder or other? Is there a local shop/tuner you trust? Does the shop/tuner have more experance with one over the other? Just some questions to think about and answer. It may narrow your choice down.

I have a 2zz Spyder and it will be getting a Supercharger soon as WEBIII gets his 1zz sorted out. From what I've read there is more maintence, adjusting, and general upkeep with most turbo's compared to a supercharger. This is afer they are sorted out and tuned. YMMV Turbo can make more power than supercharger, supercharger has no lag. It's comes down to personal preferance.

 

turbo 2zz

 

If you're going to consider N/A, consider a K20 swap

 

Originally posted by sbm-mrs
Ok, I'm getting a another spyder soon and I am going to build this one to race. Probably mostly time attack because they are starting to do a good amount of races on the east coast, and maybe some nasa racing. So I am looking for opinions on which would work better for hard racing, but still want to be able to drive it on the street occasionally. Motor will be lightly built to keep reliability up hopefully (also if anyone has recommendations on a compression ratio to go with for pistons for either supercharged or turbo'd). Will probably go pistons and rods, valves, springs, retainers and maybe cams(any opinion on cams would be good too). In keeping it lightly built I'm talking stage 1 or 2 for the internal goodies. The car will be gutted and will have some sort of cage installed (haven't decided on wether to do a full cage or a really hefty rollbar). Thats all I can think of right now. Any opinions (that make sense, and are not flames) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

What do you want out of the car?

We only make turbo's but if a supercharger fits your application "more better" I'll be the first one to tell you go for the charger. If not, we gots lots O' turbo stuff for your car. :mrgreen:

 

I have driven both, don't really prefer one to the other, unless your talking larger turbos with alot of lag (I don't like them). I have built 3 turbo'd cars for my friends and have owned 1 myself. I have only driven supercharged cars, haven't personally owned one. I am looking at power goals between 225-250 hp, which is why I am debating between the 2 (if I was going for higher hp I would go turbo). I am not worried about class I get put into in any race series, so I guess that doesn't matter. One of my concerns with the supercharger would be belt wear (how often, how fast under race conditions). And Jay, dont worry, if I go turbo I'll be using your kit

. I will be building the car myself and will only have tunning done by a shop, but I know a good shop just in case.

 

Seems like a smaller turbo would meet your power goals and prevent lag. I don't think any of the SC guys have hit that kind of power yet. Have they?

 

It is in the works now

Give me another week or two and I'll have some good numbers for you on the SC option. I'm currently rebuilding my exhaust to get rid of a restriction.

For the record, my new SC just hit 13 PSI below 5k on a test run yesterday

I have to free it up a little and change the pulley before I get serious on tuning. At this point, I don't see a problem making those numbers at all 8)

 

Originally posted by paul price
turbo 2zz

Hard to argue with that one.....

 

another thing I might add is that I like how flat the powerband is in the spyder, there are not any major spikes in power anywhere and would like to keep close to the same. I would think that the turbo would have more of a spike/jump, but would it really be noticeable with a fast spooling turbo like the gt28 (at prob 7-10psi)?

 

here's a link to a hass gt28r dyno at 6psi, pretty linear :wink:
http://www.hassturbo.com/images/gallery/ch...ock-vs-6psi.gif

 

Originally posted by boardernr
here's a link to a hass gt28r dyno at 6psi, pretty linear :wink:
http://www.hassturbo.com/images/gallery/ch...ock-vs-6psi.gif

Thanks for that...and for the record that was through a 2.5" exhaust, cat and one of our first turbo system installs - actually our second ever on Charles car with the top mount intercooler. The kits are now doing that or better than that in some cases at 5psi.

The GT28R makes for a very linear boost response...great low end without losing it on the top end and awesome transient response with the throttle. I've logged peak boost coming on in about .5 seconds...the same time the log showed it took for the gas pedal to go from 0 to 100%. So in other words, if you think about pushing the pedal down, by the time it's at the floor you have your boost. We are talking about a normal quick push of the gas pedal...not a monster stomp. Push your foot down in play like you are hitting the gas and you will see - yep, it's about .5 seconds.

 

I don't wanna be too obtrusive. But in this day and age of turbos, I really don't know why anyone would want a supercharger. Often you'll generate more heat with a supercharger, as well as the fan speeds on most blowers don't even come close to the high rpms of turbofans at their full spool. I know the fan sizes are relevant. But it's not as if a gt28s fan is tiny.

lag huh?? just get a small ball bearing turbo. You'll see that lag really doesn't even exist.

People can argue 'more maintenance' w/ the turbocharger all day. But it's a bunch of bull. No matter which way you go, you'll have much more to look after than before.

I just can't see the advantages of supercharging. But, I guess you'd spark interest with the nascar crowd if you had a supercharger.


HEY JAY!? WHERE'S MY YELLOW TURBO SPYDER?!?

 

This summed it all up ", I really don't know ". The rest was redundant. 8)

 

Heres another Hass stage II (GT28R 3" exhaust) on a Dynojet248 at 7psi - Untuned.

 

Power should be of least concern for a track car specially on a light car like the spyder. If you want the car to be fast just gut it.

I have a turbo spyder that gets 1 to 2 track weekends a month. Last year I put over 1500 track miles on the car. But it has taken a lot of car and maintenance to keep it alive.

If I had to do it again I would just ditch the 1zz motor and go 2zz. Which I will most likely do this year.

There is a reason you don't see a lot of turbo or supercharged 1zz cars on the track. It's because the motor is just not reliable enough to take extended periods of abuse.

Also none of the bolt on turbo kits or the supercharger have been track extensively track tested. I mean several track days a month for a year or so not just a single track day.

I recommend the 2zz. If you think you need more power then turbo the 2zz. In either case you will have a more reliable car.

A track day is more enjoyable when you are not paranoid about your motor blowing up. :wink:

 

Originally posted by silversprint
Power should be of least concern for a track car specially on a light car like the spyder. If you want the car to be fast just gut it.

I have a turbo spyder that gets 1 to 2 track weekends a month. Last year I put over 1500 track miles on the car. But it has taken a lot of car and maintenance to keep it alive.

If I had to do it again I would just ditch the 1zz motor and go 2zz. Which I will most likely do this year.

There is a reason you don't see a lot of turbo or supercharged 1zz cars on the track. It's because the motor is just not reliable enough to take extended periods of abuse.

Also none of the bolt on turbo kits or the supercharger have been track extensively track tested. I mean several track days a month for a year or so not just a single track day.

I recommend the 2zz. If you think you need more power then turbo the 2zz. In either case you will have a more reliable car.

A track day is more enjoyable when you are not paranoid about your motor blowing up. :wink:

Well said..

 

Originally posted by WEBIII
This summed it all up ", I really don't know ". The rest was redundant. 8)

ok then... well then tell me man. I WANT to know why it is such an advantage to have a supercharger. I'm not just knocking it for no reason. I really don't get its advantages vs a lot of turbos today.

tell me. I WANT to know what makes it so much better.

 

Don't you have lower temperatures with a supercharger? No need for a turbo timer. No messy oil lines.

 

I personnally dont think there is a huge advantage of one over the other (or at least not in the application and power #'s I am looking for). Which is the reason I started this thread, to get some other peoples personal opinions on which would work better for what I am going to be using it for, because I am undecided on which way I would like to go with it (I will be happy either way, just looking for the most reliable way). Does any one know if belt wear will be an issue (with the supercharger that is).

 

Looking for peaky, big HP and willing to put up with some lag (no matter *how* good the turbos are these days)? Go with the turbo.

Looking for virtually instant response, nice power boost, more linear power band and usability at lower RPMs? Supercharger.

I own both and yeah, the turbo is fun *when* it spools, but, as Beanie said, you have to either have a turbo timer or be mindful of how often/how hard you pushed before you just go and shut your car off. Yes, oil temps will be higher and you're (in theory) going to break down your oil more quickly.

The supercharged car is more fun/torquey and you don't have to think about it as much.

If you want peak power and want to claim that you have a 300HP Spyder, go for the turbo. If you want enhanced usability and you don't base your manhood on peak HP, go with the SC...

 

the lag on my turbo is all most non existent. a turbo 1zz is fun, but it will be work. mine was running for about a month, and then one little trip to the dragon, and the exhaust broke in two

but i dont care, i like to work on cars, i love to drive it when it is all fixed up, and i would not trade it for anything!

 

Originally posted by sbm-mrs
Does any one know if belt wear will be an issue (with the supercharger that is).

The material that the belts are made of has improved over the last few years. I plan to replace it every year or so. Treat it like tires, replace it before they wear out.