THE P/S Pump gets a Power Up Sig from the Spyder ECU.. if the replacement ECU does not pull the line high or low, the P/S ECU will just start when it's powered up..

The P/S ECU will turn off the P/S Pump, if the P/S ECU is powered up, and Speed Sigs are present.. ( Coasting and restarting. )

The ONLY sigs that come from the Spyder ECU to drive the Cluster, is the Tack sig , Check Engine Lite.. the Temp Gauge, and the Oil Pressure lite.. The Temp sig comes through the CAN bus line.. I THINK the oil lite also comes from that also.. the tack and engine lite are 'Normal' wire functions

The A/C 'Controls' also talk through the CAN Bus from the Cluster to the ECU.. if you want to have A/C, you will need to hook up relays to do that function.. not hard.. The A/C also has a 'Freeze protection' temp sensor to turn off the compressor if the Evap gats too cold... that is also done through the CAN Bus.. you can replace that function by adding a Pressure Switch in the Accumulator/Dryer to detect low pressure ( Freezing.. open the switch ) to protect the Compressor from liquid Slugging..

Cap

 

THE P/S Pump gets a Power Up Sig from the Spyder ECU.. if the replacement ECU does not pull the line high or low, the P/S ECU will just start when it's powered up..

The P/S ECU will turn off the P/S Pump, if the P/S ECU is powered up, and Speed Sigs are present.. ( Coasting and restarting. )


Cap

So basically what you're saying is just feed the P/S ECU a speed signal and it will work just fine (as in it will cut off the pump when you get up to speed and cut back on under a certain speed)?

 

The PS ECU gets is Speed Sig from the Cluster.. when the Celica ECU is installed for the 2ZZ Swap, the Celica ECU knows nothing of the electric PS System, and ignores it.. When a 2ZZ swapped Spyder is started, the PS ECU will start the PS Motor right when the key is turned on, rather than waiting for a 'Running' sig from Spyder ECU..

The PS Motor is never turned off in normal activity.. its speed is varied to give different feel of the wheel.. as a 'Safety Feature', the PS ECU does a system check before turning on the PS Pump.. if when the PS ECU wakes up, it sees a Speed Sig, it will keep the PS Motor from running, and toss a PS lite, as it should never 'Come Alive' when the car is moving..

Yes the PS System will take care of itself.. you do not have to do anything with it.. just let the ignition switch turn on the Car Systems, and the ABS/PS and cluster will talk to each other no mater what ( If any ) ECU is in the Car..

The only thing you have to be conserned with is the Fuel Pump, Coil power and the Injector power.. you will loose the temp gauge, AC, Oil Lite and the Check Engine lit if the ECU is not a 'Spyder Friendly'.. ( Honda )..

ALL of the Immobilizer Transmitter/reader is in the Ignition Switch, and the Receiver is in the Spyder ECU, so that will not hamper you at all.. as no other 'Boxes' are involved in the Immob Function.

Cap

 

I vote Cap to make wiring harnesses for us. :lol:

 

The original K20 spyder had the Spyder ECU still in the car and ran with a Kpro. Not all the gauges in the cluster were working including the temperature gauge. No A/C.

 

In my k-swap i use the oem ecu for the body and kpro for the engine, i have connected everything so everything in the oem cluster works,
only problem i have is that the P/S is always on and as Cap said it starts when the key is turned, but if i understand it right, if i connect the the P/S ecu speed signal to the cluster speed signal it should work as oem?

 

Would be great if boosted / ddpr got into this. They Def have the knowledge and now with more parts readily available they could be the ones to work out the final little details and then we would all be sweet.

 

Sure - we can build whatever y'all need. We have a couple Ks lying around and we can put one in my spyder easily enough, although we have been planning on starting in on a 2GR swap kit next month - I will need a tranny though if you all need mounts as well.

What would you guys like us to make? Headers and exhaust? Swap Harness? Mounts and axles? Hoses? Shift linkage? Turbo Kit? All of the above?

Which K would you guys want to run?

Which EMS would you want to use? We can put some pretty great prices together on Pro EFI as we are at their deepest discount level. Or we can use a Hondata product if you prefer.

 

I'd like to see the k24 swap instead of the v6 kit. As great as the v6 sounds is probably too much work for backyard swaps if you have to start doing fitment mods.

To make it easier I think we need to get a few constants worked out for the swap. Such as engine (though mostly likely everyone wants a tax k24a2), gearbox, engine wiring harness and ecu. The below is from kpro

Engine Swaps - Must use 02-04 Engine harness and 02-04 Transmission
Price Description
$695 Retail price (ECU must be sent to Hondata or authorized installer).
$1295 K-Pro with new Honda PRB ECU based off US RSX-

The is a new k tuner tuning tool Coming out soon which will ve cheaper than kpro and be compatible with the tsx harness and tsx ecu which would make things much cheaper and easier to source.

I know you could use a variety of engines, box's and ecus but if we work on 1 particular set up then at least we have a known solution fully worked out.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of using the existing oil pressure Switch logic that is fed to the ECU ( Honda or Aftermarket ) then in a 'Conversion Box' ( Like will be needed for the A/C Function ) do what ever logic switching to get the Pull Hi or Pull Low Output Logic needed for the 'PS Activation Hold Off till Start Function'..

Adding a separate switch would be a little messy..

Cap

 

BTW - regarding A/C, there are known A/C compressor clutch issues in many of the K24-equipped engines. Honda/Acura have voluntarily extended the warranty on those parts (not in a swap, I'm afraid). No idea how to tell a good one from a suspect one, though.

 

The swap would use the 1zz compressor. Innovative is working on a a/c braket for the lotus.
I am working on A/C right now. Worked out a large amount of the wiring today.
Also Kpro has configurable outputs getting PS to work like factory isnt to hard at all.

I have got the A/C figured out in a crude way and can make it work. I would like to make it a little easier though.

The only real hard stuff is figuring out how to work with this multiplex crap.

I do not plan to run the 1zz ECU at all. As far as I can tell at this moment its achievable.

 

Only somewhat readable A/C control circuit from a Honda (in this case I think it's a 2007-08 CRV, but others should be similar).

 

Cap I cant pm you.. I wanted to talk to you about your ideas for A/C mine involved wiring directly off the Hvac plug amd using relays. The way I would set it up would to memic the OBD2a Honda system.
This would cut out multiplex from the equation.

Alsobdo you know anything about the multiplex system. Im trying to find a pin out of the connector and a diagram of the system.

 

The multiplex bits are part of a Toyota-proprietary, pre-CAN system (BEAN, Body Area Electrical Network). I have info on it (somewhere), but it's all proprietary, so I concluded there was nothing worthwhile to do with it.

My suggestion - cannibalize climate control bits from an earlier Toyota, they were much simpler. All it really needs to do is decide when to engage/disengage the A/C clutch, right?

 

Well you dont need to do anything with the HVAC controls. My crude way of making it work is to use the hvac harness and wire directly to the honda system. This will bypass multiplex. Since the hvac is analog till it gets to cluster.Then a little copy of the hondas way of doing ac which is to wire the pressure switch into the clutch engage voltage wire so it opens the path on low or high pressure. This also how they do the themsistor wiring. Im pretty sure this is a easy solution. The problem is you have to run wires from the hvac plug into the engine bay. So it makes it less of a plug and play which is what im trying to develope.
If what you say is true and I feel is correct. Toyotas Multiplex is a toyota only language and usless to try amd work with. It will only increase the cost of the swap. No one will want to pay 300 or more for just a little box to make some mundane lights work.

 

I think the easiest way to make a plug and play swap is to make a harness using the oem spyder ecu AND kpro.
OR
a race harness that uses JUST kpro but you lose A/c and the multiplex cluster functions.


Just using the kpro AND wanting the A/C and gauges working turns this into a custom wiring job (which many people wont be comfortable with).

Hondata has a conversion box for the lotus guys btw. Maybe you should talk to them.

As far as the k a/c compressors go, i have an 04 tsx (k24a2) as well with 125k and still on the original ac compressor

 

You will use your 1zz compressor and the lotus conversion box is can bus and like mike said multiplex is a toyota proprietary system.

Im tryimg to help you guys with wiring but I do not want the toyota ecu running with the honda ecu
Im just that kind of person. So ill post what I figure out as I go.

 

sorry for the delay but I sent you the PDF I made a while back. Its not complete but wiring list but should have most of what you are looking for.

 

Can i get a copy of that too? Thanks

 

I've been talking with Uvamosk about the wiring in the car and he and I are on the same page. If the stock ECU doesn't really need to be in the car, we will remove it. I'd also be interested in making these for customers, but it really depends on the amount of work needed to make function correctly. We could go the route of making it 100% plug and play but then the harness may cost $1000. If you are willing to do some work on your own, it makes it easier to create something that is affordable for everyone. I've been making K harnesses for cars for over 10 years and have sold thousands of them.

Since we scrapped our MR2 project a couple of years ago I got the general consensus from the Spyder community that out of the few people that actually wanted to do the swap, most were only willing to pay so much for the parts. Therefore not really making it worth the time and money to develop the kit any further. That is where we scrapped the project and moved on. Now that Innovative is offering engine mounts for the swap, it makes it much easier to deal with as that's the most complex part.

 

Updated: 4/2/2013

 

Reading through this thread I think a few things need to be cleared up for those that have no/limited knowledge of Honda engines and their codes. I'm seeing k24 used in general and for some members reading the thread may not know the differences between the different submodels. I know there are links around the Internet that list all the Honda engines, their power figures, and the car they were produced in but I am posting from my phone so ill try to find that later to include. But like was said the k24a2 from the TSX is the best k24 to source and general pricing that I have saw is in the 1500 range. Other k24's were in the Accord and Element and can be found for prices of about 300-400. Some of the k24's only have around 140hp iirc while the k24a2 has 210hp.

There are diffences in the vtec system and with the rods and pistons among many other things. If doing a frank swap you could use any k24 block I believe but some of the OEM rods/pistons will not work while others will.


This is probably old info for many posting in this thread but most of the forum will have limited knowledge on this stuff and if they seem interested and start pricing an engine they need to be informed that there are differences.


And if anything I said above is wrong, someone please correct me.


In the perfect world I would love to have my RSX, EG, and Spyder all K24a2 swapped running a Haltech ECU(direct plugin for the RSX)

And the K-tuner program that was mentioned earlier that is still in development by the same people that created Neptune is for the 05-06 Type S ecu last I read on k20a. Gotta admit I don't keep up with the Honda forums too much.

 

Reading through this thread I think a few things need to be cleared up for those that have no/limited knowledge of Honda engines and their codes. I'm seeing k24 used in general and for some members reading the thread may not know the differences between the different submodels. I know there are links around the Internet that list all the Honda engines, their power figures, and the car they were produced in but I am posting from my phone so ill try to find that later to include. But like was said the k24a2 from the TSX is the best k24 to source and general pricing that I have saw is in the 1500 range. Other k24's were in the Accord and Element and can be found for prices of about 300-400. Some of the k24's only have around 140hp iirc while the k24a2 has 210hp.

There are diffences in the vtec system and with the rods and pistons among many other things. If doing a frank swap you could use any k24 block I believe but some of the OEM rods/pistons will not work while others will.


This is probably old info for many posting in this thread but most of the forum will have limited knowledge on this stuff and if they seem interested and start pricing an engine they need to be informed that there are differences.


And if anything I said above is wrong, someone please correct me.


In the perfect world I would love to have my RSX, EG, and Spyder all K24a2 swapped running a Haltech ECU(direct plugin for the RSX)


And the K-tuner program that was mentioned earlier that is still in development by the same people that created Neptune is for the 05-06 Type S ecu last I read on k20a. Gotta admit I don't keep up with the Honda forums too much.

The K24A2 is regarded as the "best" K24 because of it's compression and proper VTEC head.
The K24A1 is from the CRV which is my second choice as it's great for a K20A head swap.. you don't have to change any of the internals to do so.
The K24A4 from the Element and the Accord will require a bit of work if you want to swap the cylinder head with one from the K20A.
The K24A8 is also another engine, same issues with the K24A4.

For more in depth information, check out the link to my write up.

http://www.hybrid-racing.com/tech/k20k24-hybrid-engine-build/

Haltech isn't the easiest system to use and it's super expensive for the mere mortal. The Ktuner program is still in works but it's only for the 05-06 ECU which, isn't worth the hassle in my opinion. Even with the jumper harness it's too much going on when you can have a simple, known to work setup with a conventional Hondata KPRO and 02-04 yea K20 engine harness. To buy and use anything other than Hondata for a swap like this wouldn't be worth it.

 

Update 4/3/2013

 

Can't thank you enough Keny for doing a great job documenting and pioneering this for us all.

 

In Ikrana's car picture thread, he lists the custom parts needed for a K swap and includes a custom clutch line. I don't see this covered in this thread. Am I missing something or do we still need to figure that out?

Also, he mentions a custom fuel line. The Fuel System section in this thread describes a fuel return line, but not the line to get fuel to the engine. Does that need to be customized as well or will it be easy? I only know the basics about fuel systems, so I could be completely wrong about this. I think it's the tubes that hookup to the fuel rail is what I'm asking about?

Also, my turn to personally say thanks to Uvamosk; you are helping me achieve my dreams with this thread!

 

I was just wondering about the clutch line the other day and then I promptly forgot. Shouldn't be hard to have them made if needed but are they needed? Same with fuel feed?

 

Yes, you will need a fuel return line as K's are not returnless. Im sure some modification will be needed for the clutch line

 

<- You'll have one buyer right here.

 

clutch line is simple. the stock mr2 spyder line thread into the k-series clutch slave..with no problem
might have to bend the hard wire little.

 

More great info. Needs confirmation unless your 200% sure.

 

Wow I havnt been in the forums in awhile. I'm still waiting for my Innovative Mounts to ship out but am just about there on refurbishing my motor. Just need to order pistons and deal with the small parts while I'm waiting for them to come in. All this wiring harness talk is awesome! All things I knew I'd have to eventually address but hadn't got around to yet. I was going to run a Si ECU with Hondata Kpro and the stock ECU alongside it. My idea was that they can both work at the same time to provide different functions as long as they're both getting the right input signals...seems I was pretty much right on that assumption.

I'll start a build thread at some point but I'm still building the motor so their is no "swap" necessarily going on at this point haha

As far as the linkage at the trans goes I had the type S 6 speed linkage retrofitted onto my 06 Si trans so I can have the stock LSD and use Innovatives linkage. I'm pretty positive that and mounting the clutch line are the only issue with the trans besides getting custom axles made.

I'm also going to be initially doing the swap sans AC but leaving the system. In the future I plan on making a stand alone electric air conditioning system 0.0

 

You can shotgun the ecu's and have the gauge cluster work completely. The only thing I haven't had confirmation on is if you need to run dual sensors for everything or if the honda and toyota ecu's share same type of sensor data. I'm going to remove the toyota ecu completely and also have kpro handle the A/C system. You will have a hard time getting A/C to work trying to shotgun ecu's. The A/C will kick on but the car will not compensate for it.

 

Few reasons i mentioned the Haltech as my preference

-They have an office within a few hours of me and a shop with certified tuner.
-Its plug and play for my 2005 RSX Type S. Kpro i would have to buy an 02-04 ecu, o2 sensor, have that ecu sent in for kpro and a jumper harness. Before their recent price drop it was cheaper for me to get the Haltech.

I know mentioning my RSX has nothing to do with k swapping the Spyder but i do plan on having the RSX tuned at some point. I would like to keep my ecus between my different cars as close as possible so i dont have to learn multiple tuning platforms.

Ain't nobody got time for that.

 

Dealing with the electronics in the 05-06 RSX... no one has time for that. haha

 

Anyone know whats gonna take the place of the powersteering pump since we wont need it? Will it need some kind of PS delete pulley or will a shorter belt be enough?

 

Hybrid and/or k-tuned have P/S and/or AC delete kits.

 

Thanks thats what I thought. Does the EP3 not have powersteering or they have electric like us?

 

Electric Power Steering.