it's just a stock k20a2 with a newer head swapped on. I assume it's stock but with honda's stock goes a long way especially with the k20a2 and the 08ish tsx engine.

 

Anyone here done the K24 bottom end with the K20A2 cylinder head and oil pump?
Weighing options on getting the K20A2 head or sending the K24's out for head work from K Mod.
I have been told it drops the compression ratio in the process which given my turbo goal it wouldn't hurt.

 

Anyone here done the K24 bottom end with the K20A2 cylinder head and oil pump?
Weighing options on getting the K20A2 head or sending the K24's out for head work from K Mod.
I have been told it drops the compression ratio in the process which given my turbo goal it wouldn't hurt.

What are your power goals? I would just have the k24 head ported; 10.5:1 compression and turbo is a beautiful thing.

 

Yeah, already settled on having it ported.
My power goals? 400 with stock internals but who knows after I start building a second engine.

 

You can get 400 with an unchanged accord engine and turbo. Keep it cheap for that, or go crazy and 600+ is not too hard.

 

Last Update: 3/12/2014

"Getting closer and closer, Thanks all who are helping make this a more managable task for others"
Mounts: Solved
Shifting Mechanism: Solved
Axles: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Wiring: Researching, Updated 3/12/2014
Radiator Hoses: Solved
Heater Hoses: Solved
A/C: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Throttle Cable: Pending Updated 3/12/2014
Fuel System: Solved
Exhaust System: Solved, Updated 3/12/2014
Anti Lock Brakes: Solved
Power Steering: Solved


General Info: Always Read First...!
Well, I have been gone for a long time and will try to keep this update. Sorry about the delay as I am in a transition period and cant work on the kswap.
Also some really big information the innovative mounts put the engine so far forward that ony the PRB intake manifold off of a RSX type S will fit. BottledFedMR2 has confirmed this and its been verifed. So anything else will require the firewall to be cut or the manifold to be shortened. This sucks but at the same time its nice to have the engine weight as far forward as possible as it puts it more centered.

I will have CONFIRMED next to everything I know for 100% is correct information.

Mounts: CONFIRMED
Recommends 75 was told by innovative that its the same as a 65a poly used by
other companies. Theirs is pure poly so 65a could sag over time.
http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=90551

Shifting Mechanism: CONFIRMED
Use the Factory MR2 cables and this bracket will make them interface with no other mods.
http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=50507
**Note: 2006+ Civic SI transmission will require the shift "Arms" off of a RSX type S transmission. You will then be able to
hook up the innovative shift Mechanism as it would be on a normal RSX type s Transmission.


Axles: CONFIRMED
Axles can be ordered through Drive Shaft Shop they now have part numbers on file though they are not on their website.
Part Number: RA9040x2 and RA9041X2

Wiring:
There is much debate about the wiring so far its every man for him self. I haven't actually started the physical wiring so I can't confirm anything or have a proven design. There a few that have completed their swaps and have them running and driving but they all sort of do wiring different. Monkey wrench racing is working on a full swap kit and will be selling the parts all seperate. I talked to them and they will be offering a wiring solution. Right now this is known for a fact!
If you want the car to fully function like a stock spyder you will need to shotgun the ecu's (Factory Toyota ECU and Honda ECU) if you don't care and want to replace your cluster than you can run a straight honda ecu but don't expect it to be very easy and you will need to know wiring to do it. You will also find it a lot harder to get the A/C running correctly with out redesigning the whole A/C wiring system.

Now if you just run the honda ecu by its self and keep your factory cluster you will lose your TEMP gauge and a few other idiot lights.


Old Info 3/12/2014
"
ABS:
I have found in theory that the ABS is almost completely independent of the engine control unit there is one wire going to the ECU and from talks with people its a input to tell ecu that ABS is active.

P/S:
The P/S system isn't to much of an issue in my eyes as it will keep running if you don't give it any signal from ecu. So at the basic level you have P/S no matter what. Now if you want to operate factory style then you need to configure Kpro to see the signal from the pump to IDLE UP on current draw which is PIN E3-25. There is also a pin on the ecu for turning the pump on and off while the engine is running/off. This pin is E3-19 on the ECU. From what I understand if the Power Steering ECU doesn't see any input on this pin it will just stay on all the time with the car in Acc/ON postion. As for any speed varience to Pump pressure adjustments this is all done between the P/S ecu and the ABS ecu (as the ABS ecu supplies the speed signal).

A/C:
I am working with innovative and when I start my swap will be using a prototype A/C adapter plate. You will want to keep your 1zz compressor as it will be the easiest by far to adapt to work. The K-series compressors are bigger and right now the 1zz one will barely fit.
I will be running wiring straight to the Hvac controls so that I can bypass the Toyota multiplex system and in essence just hard wiring the functions like Honda has in its cars all the way up to 2002. I will be recreating the same system they used in the earlier model civics that did not require any type of digital electronics. At the back of the Toyota Hvac controls the A/C switch comes out as a analog +12 or Grounded signal goes to the combo meter where it is processed and sent to the ecu on multiplex. I will just be wiring straight to this output on the Hvac control and cutting the meter and associated multiplex functions out of the circuit. I will then create a patch harness for the A/C compressor that contains the High/Low switch relays to cut the clutch and also figure out a way to wire in a freeze out switch into this same harness.


Unless I am missing something and by all means correct me. I see that if you completely remove the factory toyota ECU the only things that will not work are the A/C, Temp gauge, Some idiot lights and that is it. Everything else can be wire/jumped to function like normal.

The Temp gauge is on multiplex along with some of the idiot lights and A/C. You could make these work using the factory ECU as a multiplex conversion box and feed it the K-swaps sensor signals and hope they are in the same range as factory toyota's, or hook up factory toyota sensors in addition to the honda ones on the engine. IE: two oil pressure switches, two temp sensors ETC...

My goal is to make it as streamline and simple as possible (Wiring/Electronics). That is why I want the Toyota Ecu to be completely gone and all functions controlled by the Honda ECU.

Over all I am getting more and more done day by day and hope to start buying parts soon. I wanted to figure out most of the wiring before I even took the first bolt off the car. I'm hoping to have some of the conversion harness already made before I even start working on the car. "




Throttle Cable:
Was informed that if you buy a Cruise Control delete it will allow the factory cable to bolt in no major mods needed. Getting verification but should be for a 00-04 RSX.


Radiator Hoses: CONFIRMED
He also said that the K-series and the 2zz are very similar in where all the hoses route. Since this being true He has confirmed for fact that the kswap in the lotus all the hoses fit up 99% perfect.
He said cutting one hose 2 inches is all that is required on the lotus. Since the engine is what determines the placement of hoses then the spyder should be no different then whats required for a 2zz swap.

Heater Hoses: CONFIRMED
Read Radiator Hoses Same applies.

A/C System:
Again BottledFedMR2 is the guy to see, he is working on bringing a A/C bracket to production. He is close to having it ready and I myself will be buying one.
It will use the 1zz compressor, he says it will be a little lower than he would like but it doesn't seem to be a big issue.


"
Tim said they are in the works to make a bracket for the Lotus with Kswap. So He says he doesn't see why the spyder wouldn't be able to use it. Again like the throttle cable he would need someone to test fit it and confirm or send it back to have it modified till they get it right.
But it is doable and not a big issue. The lotus has issues with A/C line clearance and he said that is one of the problems they are working on. When I asked him of the lotus and spyder have very similar bay lay outs I didn't know for sure but he said the way the firewall's are the spyder might actually have more room for the lines. Like everything though he can't say for sure.

Exhaust System: CONFIRMED
PPE makes a Header now for MR-2 Spyder with Kswap and is also available through MWR.
Collector size is 2.5" and the over all header is longer than stock one so will stick out further than factory.
Still waiting to get info on if you can use a down pipe to make it line up with the rest of the factory system.

Fuel System: CONFIRMED
You will need to run a return of some sort. You will need to also get a fuel regulator. I am still a little iffy on this from a basic swap standpoint because honda uses a returnless system factory so you might not need to do this if your just going to oem performance.

Extra Notes:
I will update this a little more in a few days. I wanted to get something new on here as I have been away from the forums for awhile and people might like to see a summary of the events going on with the Kswap. The main thing that is missing is wiring. Once there is a agreed upon design that everyone things that works and is simple as it can be will the swap get easy enough for everyone.

Has anyone tried using the OEM motor mounts in place of the Innovate Urethane mounts on the pass and driver's sides? They fit, but I wonder about how well they handle the extra weight of KSwap and if the vibration transmission difference is noticeable.

Dave

 

I am of the opinion that all of the OEM mount will work once you have the 4th mount we created on. We are currently re-developing the engine mounts and we will be re-using the OEM mount. We hope this will also reduce costs

 

Its been a long time, but I started my car for the first time 2 days ago..

Can anyone, or bottlefed, tell me the difference between the original conversion harness and the new version? Also, why was the old AC module discontinued and how much better moltencore one?

 

Its been a long time, but I started my car for the first time 2 days ago..

Can anyone, or bottlefed, tell me the difference between the original conversion harness and the new version? Also, why was the old AC module discontinued and how much better moltencore one?

Did my phone call answer this?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

I had to buy a new AC plug because I dont have my stock harness. Does anyone know or remember which pin to use to put the conversion harness wire in? My new one does not have a pigtail so wire color wont help, but pin location on the harness plug? Thanks.

 

Anyone using an electric water pump setup with their conversion? I know Trac Tuff sells the kits for the K series but wasn't sure about the alternator since they only reference Honda alternators. Perhaps remote mounting one would work?

 

Most people do not understand that electric water pump kits generally do not supply sufficient peak flow to adequately keep the temperature rise across the the engine similar to stock. OEM coolant pumps are designed to keep the total temperature rise across the engine to about 10 degrees C at full-power across the engine speed range. That means a certain number of GPM or L/min per HP. 10 C temp rise is good number to prevent boiling and thermal stress in the hottest parts of the cylinder head. It is all about managing internal surface temps. A good example is that a 200 HP engine needs about 60 GPM peak flow to achieve this. I do not think you are going to find an electric water pump kit that is able to supply 60 GPM.

So how do folks get away with EWP conversions? In normal driving, and even most track driving, you don't stay very long at full load. So when the coolant flow rate does not match what is required for an ideal temp rise across the engine, the engine-out temp get higher, peak metal internal temps peak and you get local boiling, and average coolant temp goes up, but as soon as you back-off on the throttle, the temps settle-down and you don't boil-over. The problem is that you are adding thermal stress to the hottest high heat-flux arts of the cylinder head. I would not expect a high-output cylinder-head with an electric coolant pump to last as long as one with a properly-sized mechanical pump. You might expect head cracks or head gasket failures.

In terms of efficiency, an electric pump is generally pretty efficient as a pump, but you lose all of the efficiency in getting the electricity to the pump. Typical car alternators are only about 60% efficient, and the electric motor is only about 85% efficient. Of course an OEM pump wastes energy at light loads because it is pumping enough coolant for full-load at any rpm. I will not use an electric pump conversion in an engine that I want to last for a long time.

Dave

 

Most people do not understand that electric water pump kits generally do not supply sufficient peak flow to adequately keep the temperature rise across the the engine similar to stock. OEM coolant pumps are designed to keep the total temperature rise across the engine to about 10 degrees C at full-power across the engine speed range. That means a certain number of GPM or L/min per HP. 10 C temp rise is good number to prevent boiling and thermal stress in the hottest parts of the cylinder head. It is all about managing internal surface temps. A good example is that a 200 HP engine needs about 60 GPM peak flow to achieve this. I do not think you are going to find an electric water pump kit that is able to supply 60 GPM.

So how do folks get away with EWP conversions? In normal driving, and even most track driving, you don't stay very long at full load. So when the coolant flow rate does not match what is required for an ideal temp rise across the engine, the engine-out temp get higher, peak metal internal temps peak and you get local boiling, and average coolant temp goes up, but as soon as you back-off on the throttle, the temps settle-down and you don't boil-over. The problem is that you are adding thermal stress to the hottest high heat-flux arts of the cylinder head. I would not expect a high-output cylinder-head with an electric coolant pump to last as long as one with a properly-sized mechanical pump. You might expect head cracks or head gasket failures.

In terms of efficiency, an electric pump is generally pretty efficient as a pump, but you lose all of the efficiency in getting the electricity to the pump. Typical car alternators are only about 60% efficient, and the electric motor is only about 85% efficient. Of course an OEM pump wastes energy at light loads because it is pumping enough coolant for full-load at any rpm. I will not use an electric pump conversion in an engine that I want to last for a long time.

Dave

there are ewps with pwm regulation, for example bmw uses such afaik. but that's only efficiency, otherwise a higher coolant flow will not be a real problem, i guess.

 

I suppose that the extra piping from back to front for the radiator and heater loops does not improve the prospects at all.

 

Oil starved my 1ZZ at a track day last year, so I'm beginning the swap. Bought a junkyard '08 TSX K24 which will be mated to a RSX-S trans. I've ordered almost everything except for axles and the kpro (and a bunch of bolts...), so time to begin. Hoping to make it to a track day or two by the end of the season, but I guess it depends on how the swap goes.

 

Bought a junkyard '08 TSX K24 which will be mated to a RSX-S trans. I've ordered almost everything except for axles and the kpro (and a bunch of bolts...), so time to begin. Hoping to make it to a track day or two by the end of the season, but I guess it depends on how the swap goes.

What parts are you using, and what are your plans for the axles?

 

Most of the typical things based off the thread. Innovative mounts (they are available, but the lead time is around a month), MAP AC/harness kit, PPE header, though I'll have a friend do the rest of the exhaust. Probably will order the insane shafts axles unless there's a better recommendation I've missed. ECU will be kpro of course, from a Base MT RSX (finding a type s ECU is difficult...). Don't plan to rebuild the engine, main objective currently is to get it running. Did do the timing chain & oil pump/Moroso baffled pan though. Will do an oil cooler, (not purchased yet) & I have thought about doing an oil accumulator, but I think I'll skip that for now.

First time doing a swap, so lots of learning going on, fortunately I have quite a bit of support.

 

FB has many Type S ecu's, the going rate is around $300. Second the Innovative mounts are in stock, but we are developing our own mounts that are in my opinion improved over the innovative mounts and will re-use the OE toyota mounts to add additional support and prevent the twisting of the subframe. So, if you need Innovative stuff we have it in stock. I have 5 sets and 3 just sold. If you want our set, we will be releasing them in Feb. I am producing my own set of axles but I do not have a ETA yet because I am working with maybe companies right now to find out which solution is best.

Lastly have you seen the DIY install guide?

 

for anyone not running with all the evap hooked up, do you just leave all the lines open to atmosphere, or is there a better solution?

 

There are many benefits to keeping the Evap system intact and no disadvantages. It really is not that complicated. You should find enough info in the KSwap pages to get the wiring correct.

 

Hi guys,
I hope you're all well.

I hope someone would be able to help me. I have just completed my k swap using a universal k swap harness. It's all gone well however I now have the alternator light and brake light on which I am aware is down to the multiplex system and me using my hondata ecu.

I wondered if anyone could tell me how I can disable the alternator light and brake light please? Thank you very much!

 

You would be better off fixing the light issues rather than hiding them...

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, that's exactly what I'm trying to achieve

 

 

Dude, so sweet! That thing must scoot now. Stock transmission too?

 

Stock EP3 trans with MFactory LSD. I don’t think the trans will last long though.

 

Nice, i've been watching their rise within the honda tuning ranks.

 

Just finished my K20 swap and tuned Hondata. The car pulls really hard and is a joy to drive! Lot more torque and power compared to the 2ZZ that was in the car before...

Only pending issue to solve is the brake light that stays on. Handbrake cable is in and the break fluid is at max level. Any other idea to check why this is happening?

 

Just finished my K20 swap and tuned Hondata. The car pulls really hard and is a joy to drive! Lot more torque and power compared to the 2ZZ that was in the car before...

Only pending issue to solve is the brake light that stays on. Handbrake cable is in and the break fluid is at max level. Any other idea to check why this is happening?

I had the same issue last week. Its because you're not connected to the standard ecu or its detecting something isn't connected.

Only cheap way around it and what I did was to DIY a brake light switch into the dash and use the handbrake switch to earth thst. Worked perfectly

 

I don’t have that issue. I don’t think it’s related to the swap but more of a general spider issue.

 

Anyone received the MAP swap mounts? Doing a serious TT/track build and want to know if these are the way, or if I should build my own. Specifically the rear mount which is a known issue on the Innovative unit.

 

I second tony_r’s question regarding current best information for mounting the engine in a track only build (full cage, no interior, etc.). My original plan was to use the Innovative parts and add the front mount to avoid/minimize subframe twisting and engine twisting. Do the new mounts from MAP use a mixed poly and OE rubber mount setup or all rubber? My original 1ZZ mounts are shot so I would need new ones either way. For reference I’m in the same boat as Berrynator, lost the 1ZZ at Road Atlanta last year (sent rod parts through the block) and have acquired a complete RSX Type S dropout to install this summer.

 

I'm looking for some advice on axles. Currently debating between the 5.9 axles from Mitch's or the 1000hp axles from MWR. I asked MWR about warranty and they only cover them for 30 days. If the axles from Mitch's fall under the standard DSS warranty program, they would have a 12 month warranty. Both come with upgraded hubs. Just looking for feedback from anyone who has used either set.

 

I was in communication with DSS when my DSS swap axles took a shit, after asking for pics of the axles with which i amply supplied and ask if they wanted any more angles/closer shots, they ghosted me on said communication. My email didn't ask about warranty, free hand out or anything in that direction. I actually was asking if they could maybe repair or replace/rebuilt said axles because only one side was bad. I wanted to pay them for help with their product.

Let this give everyone a glimpse of how they do business.

Bought a pair of insane Shaft axles a week later.

 

Anyone try the combination of the OEM passenger-side mount with the Innovative 75 durometer mount on the driver's side?

Dave

 

I just did this and can report that Innovate 75 duro on the driver's side with the OEM mount on the pass side is a significant improvement in noise and vibration. You do need a couple of washers under the "bridge" to keep that side of the engine to its previous position. I am using MAP front mount and looking forward to replacing the Innovative rear mount with the new one from Mitch's.

Dave

 

I decided to replace my coolant fill/expansion tank (also known as a hot-bottle) with an aftermarket aluminum one. I think my OEM bottle is starting to get brittle. In selecting all of the fittings to go from the tank to the hoses, I remembered that the OAT coolant used in every modern car is not really compatible with copper alloys (like Brass), so I recommend that if you are doing any cooling system modifications try to use only Aluminum or stainless fittings for anything that is wetted by the coolant.

 

If you got time, would you mind doing a write up of your setup? I'm interested in replacing my bottle in the future as well.