[TheMidasTouch]

Hey guys, the Cracked Up Racing MR2 is coming along nicely.

I got my engine and transmission mounted and wanted to share some clearance captures.

First, the Skunk2 Ultra manifold clears the firewall very well.

Another angle:

Second, using an 80mm K-Tuned throttle body with the Acuity Hall effect TPS I had to 'tap' the firewall by approximately 1/2"

Third, with a Hard Dog roll-bar installed everything cleared. I still bumped the firewall out slightly near the alternator however. Here is the roll-bar backing plate for reference.

And it's clearance installed

Fourth, I tried to capture the awkward angle the lower coolant hose has with the following pics. I'm going to try coupling a 135 degree and a 90 degree together (using one of the many fan switch sensor adaptors) and see if it works. Using Pegasus Racing for those bends (135 Degree and 90 Degree)

From the driver-side looking passenger side:

And from the bottom looking up:

Fifth, Here is a relatively clear picture of the upper coolant hoses. Look pretty similar to OEM Spyder

Sixth, I have a K24 installed, and I know there have been concerns about oil pan clearance. Here are a couple shots for those interested.

-and-

Finally, because I thought the engine looks nice and natural in the car

 

[mixwell]

Nice update!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AbandonMidship!]

Looks great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rcntype]

I made mines turn as close to the subframe as possible but with the 3" DP, it still hangs lower than I like. I have not hit anything with my DP yet. I think that PPE header runners are too short after comparing to all the other K headers. Something like the ramhead from Ktune would help us gain some runner length for our application.

I don't understand why we're relying on PPE to make an exhaust. Why not ask one of the many Honda shops who have R&D the crap out of this engine for years to make our exhaust. :biggrin-new: All it would take is to pull up one of their successful header programs that is suited to the general performance that we want (NOT drag racing!!) and make it fit in our engine bay.

 

[dblotii]

My buddy Al is making really excellent HP with his PPE header on a K24 with cams. I'm not sure if his PPE header is the same as the one currently offered.

Dave

 

[dblotii]

Hey guys, the Cracked Up Racing MR2 is coming along nicely.

I got my engine and transmission mounted and wanted to share some clearance captures.


Another angle:

Fourth, I tried to capture the awkward angle the lower coolant hose has with the following pics. I'm going to try coupling a 135 degree and a 90 degree together (using one of the many fan switch sensor adaptors) and see if it works. Using Pegasus Racing for those bends (135 Degree and 90 Degree)

Fr

Fifth, Here is a relatively clear picture of the upper coolant hoses. Look pretty similar to OEM Spyder

Is that the TSX thermostat housing?

Dave

 

[BottledFedMR2]

My buddy Al is making really excellent HP with his PPE header on a K24 with cams. I'm not sure if his PPE header is the same as the one currently offered.

Dave

Same size just SS but yes he is making over 250 whp

 

[TheMidasTouch]

Hey guys. Figured out a couple more items last night. Thanks again to Brandon for the help!

Lower radiator hose. I was going to hit up Pegasus for a 90 and a 135, but two ~90 degree's seem to do the trick as well. I think a 60 and a 135 would maybe be ideal with. I'm using an adapter for mine such that I can insert a fan switch, but I've tried to capture the angle and length of what worked for me.

Length/Bends

Rotation (120 - 135 ish degrees?)

Fit

Clutch Line (thanks again guys for those part numbers!)
Here's an interesting picture. It has the clutch line routing, a rubber guard near my lower hose due to clearance, and an example of why I'm an idiot.

Fuel feed line
With my rail/manifold, I can run a center feed. I simply rotated the feed hard line 180 and added a Quick Disconnect fitting by Russel. Part #: 644113

The rest is just the standard -6 AN line flora and fauna. Of note however, if you can run this style line, you can save a bit of money. I bought 6'. I really needed 12".

Tonight I'll wrap up the upper coolant hose. Brandon has a couple good suggestions, and I have a spare hose adaptor laying around I'll tap out to 5/8"'s pipe thread for the heater hose and post what it looks like.

 

[BottledFedMR2]

So I have been research on this coolant issue, I have many people reporting some sort of cooling issue. Most state idle and driving seem to hold normal temp's but track use or dyno is getting cylinder temp's to high. I've been reading about the Meziere pumps but my concern is the ampere's. The suggested pumps will require 10-12 amp's. That is going to put a great strain on the OEM alternator as well as finding a battery to keep up with that need. We have the room and the location for a remote pump. Any other pump's out there with a lower amp rating?

 

[BottledFedMR2]

2 primary ways to avoid cavitation:
1) raise the system pressure with a higher pressure cap. This raises pressure everywhere in the system including the pump inlet where cavitation starts
2) improve the flow resistance anywhere in the system you can. By reducing the pressure drop from pump inlet to outlet, you increase the minimum pump inlet pressure. You also get more flow for a given pump speed. Bigger poppet thermostats (or 2 in parallel) are particularly effective. The flow resistance of everything counts including the radiator, hoses, and the engine itself.

Better pump designs also help of course, but i do not know of a better impeller source for the K. I do know that some of the aftermarket pumps have impellers that look worse than the OEM Honda part. As far as getting a high-output pump for very high HP K engines, I would probably just use whatever engine-driven pump the best racers use even if you are way off the .3 gpm/hp mark. For an engine-driven pump, coolant flow rate goes up roughly linearly with rpm until you hit cavitation. Therefore driving the pump faster with high system pressure is a good approach. I don't know what the OEM Honda pump flows at peak power, but I would guess 50-60 gpm.

Dave

Meziere is stating that their 35 gpm pump is sufficient for up to 650 whp. I just don't buy it.

 

[BottledFedMR2]

. You can only do that if you have the flow/pressure/speed maps of both pumps.

Dave

Dave is this is respect to a engine driven and a electric pump setup? I though it you mentioned it wouldn't matter if you ran the OEM and the electric?

 

[KseriesPower]

So I have been research on this coolant issue, I have many people reporting some sort of cooling issue. Most state idle and driving seem to hold normal temp's but track use or dyno is getting cylinder temp's to high. I've been reading about the Meziere pumps but my concern is the ampere's. The suggested pumps will require 10-12 amp's. That is going to put a great strain on the OEM alternator as well as finding a battery to keep up with that need. We have the room and the location for a remote pump. Any other pump's out there with a lower amp rating?

Whos having cooling issues? This is news to me.

Any kind of electric water pump designed to flow enough water to cool a motor will require that amount of amp draw. Anything less and you will be in the same boat.

 

[TheMidasTouch]

I was with this motor in my Integra. Temps would reach ~214 after 7-8 hot laps. However, that was at ~235whp (I never lapped with the big cams in). I'm anticipating quite a bit more power with this new build.

I had a significant radiator, but I think my air-flow may have been ambiguous.

I just snagged a Koyo for my MR2, anyone else have experience with it?

 

[dblotii]

Dave is this is respect to a engine driven and a electric pump setup? I though it you mentioned it wouldn't matter if you ran the OEM and the electric?

Yes, this is relative to the idea of running the engine-driven pump in series with an electric pump. You can do it but you won't know if there is actually a net gain, or if the electric pump is just acting like an orifice restriction for the engine driven pump, unless you study the flow maps (and the inlet/outlet areas) of each pump). I have never tried to analyze such a setup and I think you would want the opinion of someone who has done this successfully before. At the very least, the booster pump will need an inlet area at least as big as the radiator hose.

I would concentrate on the following:
1. Get the best K-pump, probably OEM, but I am not sure if the type R or some other version is the best.
2. For stock power levels, you can slow the pump down with an underdrive pulley setup, but for 250+ HP, you need to turn the pump as fast or faster than stock. The challenge here is that the pump will eventually cavitate at some peak speed. If you can't avoid cavitation at peak power speed, then slowing the pump down will actually help.
3. Minimize the cavitation point by raising the system pressure with a higher rated pressure cap and get all of the air out of the system. A system with trapped air will not fully pressurize.
4. Smooth bends and connections throughout the coolant path, and a larger thermostat (like Mishimoto) will also help cavitation since the minimum pressure at the pump inlet (that is the parameter that determines if you cavitate) is proportional to the total pressure drop through the whole cooling circuit. You could also try larger coolant pipes from the front of the car to the rear.

Dave

 

[dblotii]

Meziere is stating that their 35 gpm pump is sufficient for up to 650 whp. I just don't buy it.

I don't buy it either. You can get away with it in street driving or probably drag racing where the brief power peaks can get cooled down after you back out of the throttle.

Dave

 

[BottledFedMR2]

I was with this motor in my Integra. Temps would reach ~214 after 7-8 hot laps. However, that was at ~235whp (I never lapped with the big cams in). I'm anticipating quite a bit more power with this new build.

I had a significant radiator, but I think my air-flow may have been ambiguous.

I just snagged a Koyo for my MR2, anyone else have experience with it?

I have a Koyo race rad in the white car and a Mishi in the silver

 

[BottledFedMR2]

Whos having cooling issues? This is news to me.

Any kind of electric water pump designed to flow enough water to cool a motor will require that amount of amp draw. Anything less and you will be in the same boat.

Anyone with a K24 modified engine. I haven't taken mine out on the track yet, but after talking with the k24 crowd that's modded they seem to have what sound's like cavitation and boiling. My white car barely has any heat until I step on the pedal and raise the RPM's, which tells me the flow is low at idle. That's not normally a big deal but it's making me think there isn't enough flow for modded engines is the discussion of other's.

 

[BottledFedMR2]

Yes, this is relative to the idea of running the engine-driven pump in series with an electric pump. You can do it but you won't know if there is actually a net gain, or if the electric pump is just acting like an orifice restriction for the engine driven pump, unless you study the flow maps (and the inlet/outlet areas) of each pump). I have never tried to analyze such a setup and I think you would want the opinion of someone who has done this successfully before. At the very least, the booster pump will need an inlet area at least as big as the radiator hose.

I would concentrate on the following:
1. Get the best K-pump, probably OEM, but I am not sure if the type R or some other version is the best.
2. For stock power levels, you can slow the pump down with an underdrive pulley setup, but for 250+ HP, you need to turn the pump as fast or faster than stock. The challenge here is that the pump will eventually cavitate at some peak speed. If you can't avoid cavitation at peak power speed, then slowing the pump down will actually help.
3. Minimize the cavitation point by raising the system pressure with a higher rated pressure cap and get all of the air out of the system. A system with trapped air will not fully pressurize.
4. Smooth bends and connections throughout the coolant path, and a larger thermostat (like Mishimoto) will also help cavitation since the minimum pressure at the pump inlet (that is the parameter that determines if you cavitate) is proportional to the total pressure drop through the whole cooling circuit. You could also try larger coolant pipes from the front of the car to the rear.

Dave

Well the use of an electric pump will provide a constant flow and increase inlet pressure to the OEM pump in my mind is you mount it at the radiator. The electric pump won't have cavitation due to centrifugal design and constant speed. Maybe just adding a 37 gpm pump will add just the bit more pressure needed at the OEM pumps inset to prevent cavitation. Time to re-invent the wheel

 

[BottledFedMR2]

BTW I think I'm going to try the aerospace pump, 37 gpm at 4 amp's.

 

[TheMidasTouch]

BTW I think I'm going to try the aerospace pump, 37 gpm at 4 amp's.

Awesome! Can't wait to see your findings. Are you going to run it in series, or replace your existing?