[mixwell]

What did you have to cut in the K-tuned Rams horn? Was the lower section approximately correct for clearing the cross-member? I am wondering if the other K-tuned swap headers would need extensive re-working to get past the cross member.

Dave

it was cut right after the last 2 to 1 section, and yes it clears the crossmember. added was a 2.5 to 3.0 and flex pipe and v-band.

going with a bigger tube header next round though.

 

[TheMidasTouch]

on the K, there are two heater connections on the motor. one that is next to exhaust port #4. I believe people are calling this the feed. The other is a hard pipe that comes up beneath the intake manifold and sits near the transmission pointing rearward. if you trace the hard pipe it connects right by the tstat housing. I believe people refer to this as the return. I'm using the tstat housing connection for heat, and blocking the exhaust port 4 connection with this: https://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=7004

*** Edit, the below is mis-information. My understanding was, in fact, incorrect!! ***

Hey bud. I think this may cause some unexpected behavior. For example (and this is all speculation on my part,) I think your heater system flow will reverse course from OEM. The original feed will now be at the lowest pressure area, and the original return will be near a high-ish pressure section (near the radiator inlet). Another possibility is that in cold weather, I'm not sure whether you'll have hot coolant available for the heat exchanger in cabin. The thermostats temp is controlled by the radiator outlet temperature. As such, it may remain mostly closed for the duration of your drive (as it flows through the bypass route). Finally, it may take a long time for the heater core to come up to temperature when compared to OEM.

This is all assuming that I actually understand the coolant routing in Spyders however. *** Edit: DOH!! *** Good luck!

 

[TheMidasTouch]

Another quick update:

Battery relocation. I'm sure others have done this before, but here's how I got my battery to the front right. It looks like OEM Spyders are left rear heavy. I would have preferred to hang this where the windshield reservoir is, but didn't feel like either losing the bottle, or fiddling for hours. So I put mine on the frame/over the steering rack.

If you take the OEM battery tray and turn the bottom bolt hole such that it lays flat, the side of the tray and the front upright are near enough to be tacked/welded onto the frame and cross member. Finally, one of the original bolt holes at the bottom of the tray align over the other side of the same power steering bolt. Then you can just run one final upright support (not pictured) and be done. I'll have a certified tech inspector check it out and get their feelings. But it was pretty quick and simple. So if I had to re-work it I wouldn't mind.

Exhaust time. I've purchased a used PPE such that I can use the cat converter for emissions test goodness when it comes around. However I'll be modifying one of the first gen R-Crew headers soon. Below is a relatively clear and wholistic image of the PPE system. The R-Crew, and possibly other Tri-Y headers from some of the FWD swap crowd appears to clear the cross member with a few millimeters. It protrudes from the rear bumper by 7"-10" unfortunately. However, assuming we used the same diameter tubing, it can be modified to fit without compromising scavenging (I think).

Here's the thought. At the end of the first 2-->1 merge collectors, simply cut and replace the straight tubing with 90 degree elbows pointing up. We seem to have the real estate to play with at the new hypothetical exit to either: a) add the beginning 3"-3.5" exhaust piping elbow to begin it's routing/cat converter, or b) dump into a center entrance - dual exit oval muffler. I think i would prefer the former, but the later appeals to my lazier side. Thoughts?

Fun pics.

Little man helping put the tail light on. So much helping.

The Honda valve cover is pretty conspicuous.

The swap and bar are really the only work I've done to the car so far.

 

[dblotii]

it was cut right after the last 2 to 1 section, and yes it clears the crossmember. added was a 2.5 to 3.0 and flex pipe and v-band.

going with a bigger tube header next round though.

It seems to me that if your K-Tuned Rams-Horn Swap header fits our chassis (clears the axle and cross-member), then any of the K-Tunes swap headers should also fit if cut after the last 2 to 1 section. An aftermarket TSX header would require a lot more rework because the 90 degree bend is too far on the passenger side. It seems the choices are either TSX OEM maniold, modified Swap manifold, or modify the PPE to not hang down so low.

Dave

 

[gawdzilla]

Hey bud. I think this may cause some unexpected behavior. For example (and this is all speculation on my part,) I think your heater system flow will reverse course from OEM. The original feed will now be at the lowest pressure area, and the original return will be near a high-ish pressure section (near the radiator inlet). Another possibility is that in cold weather, I'm not sure whether you'll have hot coolant available for the heat exchanger in cabin. The thermostats temp is controlled by the radiator outlet temperature. As such, it may remain mostly closed for the duration of your drive (as it flows through the bypass route). Finally, it may take a long time for the heater core to come up to temperature when compared to OEM.

This is all assuming that I actually understand the coolant routing in Spyders however. Good luck!

this is a good point. i've never really fully understood "inlet" vs. "outlet" when it comes to coolant systems, or heater cores. on most cars i've worked on, the heater core loop is entirely independent, i.e. it has it's own inlet and outlet. so the direction of flow doesn't really matter. on the spyders, the "return" is a shared hose, so running the engine coolant "clockwise" and the heater core "counter-clockwise" could mess things up.

Right now, I do get heat and temps are staying consistent, but can see things not running as smoothly as they could.

Can anyone confirm the proper connections? which heater port on the K motor is supposed to be used to feed the single heater line on the Spyder chassis?

 

[dblotii]

this is a good point. i've never really fully understood "inlet" vs. "outlet" when it comes to coolant systems, or heater cores. on most cars i've worked on, the heater core loop is entirely independent, i.e. it has it's own inlet and outlet. so the direction of flow doesn't really matter. on the spyders, the "return" is a shared hose, so running the engine coolant "clockwise" and the heater core "counter-clockwise" could mess things up.

Right now, I do get heat and temps are staying consistent, but can see things not running as smoothly as they could.

Can anyone confirm the proper connections? which heater port on the K motor is supposed to be used to feed the single heater line on the Spyder chassis?

On the K20, the heater is fed by the connection in the head next to the exhaust port for cylinder #4. On the K24 it should be fed from the fitting in the cooling plate at the rear of the head. I don't think we will be using either of these since there is a connection near the front of the car coming off the coolant pipe to the radiator. This should work just fine. The return from the heater core has to be to one of the connections in the thermostat housing since the thermostat is on the suction side of the pump. The K like most modern engine use an inlet thermostat setup. The 2 pipes in the stat housing are both into the pump, but one of them will get shut off by the small poppet in the thermostat when the thermostat is fully open. As long as there is some bypass flow, the thermostat senses the temperature of the coolant circulating in the engine mixed with what is coming in from the radiator return. The stat does not sense the engine outlet temp.

Dave

 

[gawdzilla]

On the K20, the heater is fed by the connection in the head next to the exhaust port for cylinder #4. On the K24 it should be fed from the fitting in the cooling plate at the rear of the head. I don't think we will be using either of these since there is a connection near the front of the car coming off the coolant pipe to the radiator. This should work just fine. The return from the heater core has to be to one of the connections in the thermostat housing since the thermostat is on the suction side of the pump. The K like most modern engine use an inlet thermostat setup. The 2 pipes in the stat housing are both into the pump, but one of them will get shut off by the small poppet in the thermostat when the thermostat is fully open. As long as there is some bypass flow, the thermostat senses the temperature of the coolant circulating in the engine mixed with what is coming in from the radiator return. The stat does not sense the engine outlet temp.

Dave

Ok so I guess I have it correct. Return is by the thermostat and the return is also the dedicated line for the heater. That's a good idea to just Tee off from the front radiator though. Wonder why it isn't like that from the factory on the 1zz spyder

 

[KseriesPower]

Hey bud. I think this may cause some unexpected behavior. For example (and this is all speculation on my part,) I think your heater system flow will reverse course from OEM. The original feed will now be at the lowest pressure area, and the original return will be near a high-ish pressure section (near the radiator inlet). Another possibility is that in cold weather, I'm not sure whether you'll have hot coolant available for the heat exchanger in cabin. The thermostats temp is controlled by the radiator outlet temperature. As such, it may remain mostly closed for the duration of your drive (as it flows through the bypass route). Finally, it may take a long time for the heater core to come up to temperature when compared to OEM.

This is all assuming that I actually understand the coolant routing in Spyders however. Good luck!

I dont think so. That is exactly how the OEM system is ran.

 

[KseriesPower]

This entire thread is becoming useless. Only speculation with absolutely ZERO data and WAY too many "I think"s.

Answer these questions.
Which way does coolant flow in the 1zz system?
Which ports does the 1zz use and where do they attach on the motor?
Do 1zz's have cooling issues?
What are you changing between the 2 systems?

 

[mixwell]

You don't need the heater line on the k head and that's a fact. Plugging it is okay.

The 1zz system works well. Sometimes upgrading the radiator is too efficient for some people, even with the k series. I have a koyo and it takes quite some time to warm up during the winter.

I don't get this nonsense about 4-5 extra feet of tubing. You're pushing a liquid. Volumetric efficiency is not as important as an air system. That's why you don't see air to air intercoolers in the spyder.


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[rcntype]

I haven't been on track but I get hot air if I want at idle not at 3k+ rpms.

 

[KseriesPower]

I haven't been on track but I get hot air if I want at idle not at 3k+ rpms.

some people got it, some people dont.


Is anyone having problems with this setup?

1) keep all OEM spyder coolant lines and reservoir
2) connect the passenger side hardline hose to thermostat (an aftermarket hose may be needed here)
3) connect hose that comes from driver side hardline to OEM upper coolant neck (no aftermarket radiator cap on this)
4) KEEP the bypass line that goes from the back side of the thermostat housing and under the intake manifold. Connect this line to the line that goes to the heater core.
5) plug the port that comes straight out of the header.

 

[dblotii]

Ok so I guess I have it correct. Return is by the thermostat and the return is also the dedicated line for the heater. That's a good idea to just Tee off from the front radiator though. Wonder why it isn't like that from the factory on the 1zz spyder

The factory Spyder heater core is supplied by a T off the water pipe to the radiator.

 

[TheMidasTouch]

What do you guys think about setting up a Sub-forum under Performance Modifications? As this swap picks up, I think it would be nice to organize and sticky all the hard work you've found. Then we could have discussion threads (like the coolant one) that don't derail efforts.

 

[BottledFedMR2]

This entire thread is becoming useless. Only speculation with absolutely ZERO data and WAY too many "I think"s.

That takes time and money. I have to money just sit tight and we will get some answer's but we have to wait for parts in the mail.

 

[BottledFedMR2]

some people got it, some people dont.


Is anyone having problems with this setup?

1) keep all OEM spyder coolant lines and reservoir
2) connect the passenger side hardline hose to thermostat (an aftermarket hose may be needed here)
3) connect hose that comes from driver side hardline to OEM upper coolant neck (no aftermarket radiator cap on this)
4) KEEP the bypass line that goes from the back side of the thermostat housing and under the intake manifold. Connect this line to the line that goes to the heater core.
5) plug the port that comes straight out of the header.

See you don't have a z3 head, you cannot plug the port on the z3 head, its used to pre heat the thermostat. Maybe that is why your k24 doesn't have the issues we are discussing, we have k20/k24's.

 

[KseriesPower]

See you don't have a z3 head, you cannot plug the port on the z3 head, its used to pre heat the thermostat. Maybe that is why your k24 doesn't have the issues we are discussing, we have k20/k24's.

same EXACT thing on the z3 head. Plug the port that comes out of the coolant neck.

Use the hardline that goes under the intake manifold and goes to the thermostat housing. Connect that to the hardline that goes to the heater core....

K tuned even makes a neck that dose it for you...

 

[BottledFedMR2]

same EXACT thing on the z3 head. Plug the port that comes out of the coolant neck.

Use the hardline that goes under the intake manifold and goes to the thermostat housing. Connect that to the hardline that goes to the heater core....

K tuned even makes a neck that dose it for you...

Yes you leave that one alone and attach it to the OEM heater hose.

 

[dblotii]

KSwap headers; K20

I am not sure what the best option is for a header for a K20 in the Spyder, but this is how I see it:

The PPE Kswap header looks reasonable but I think it sits too low for a K20
The TSX OEM header can be adapted easily with a custom downpipe, but it is a bit heavy and performance is limited
Most KSwap headers will clear the crossmember, but most are too long to fit without extensive modifications before the last merge
The K-tuned KSwap headers (like the 4-2-1 and the Ram-style) look like they are short enough to fit without extensive modifications and offer reasonable performance.

Any other points of view?

Dave

 

[mixwell]

Turbo. LoL


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