[BottledFedMR2]

If your tapping directly from the sensor to the speedo then it will register but 06+ civic uses a different vss than 02-04, the frequency isnt the same thetefore if your looking to engage rev lock, launch control and other funcation your going to do the above I listed. I assumed you would tap it at the ecu

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[rcntype]

The benefit of using stock Honda axles is that, after the initial cost, replacements are inexpensive and reliable. We have endurance raced OEM Honda axles in 3hr, 6hr, and 25hr races for multiple years without failure.

This, this right here!! Also include being able to pick up from any parts store. And most people aren't going for 600hp i don't think.

 

[BottledFedMR2]

This, this right here!! Also include being able to pick up from any parts store. And most people aren't going for 600hp i don't think.

But what if you actually bought a axle the first time and you did not have to replace it?

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[BottledFedMR2]

This, this right here!! Also include being able to pick up from any parts store. And most people aren't going for 600hp i don't think.

50% of people are turboing w the expectations of hitting 600 or more

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[TheBerrynator]

50% of people are turboing w the expectations of hitting 600 or more

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Are the numbers really that high? I'd like a bit more than 200whp, but I'd expect much more than 300 would be unusable in this car.

 

[rmeller]

... much more than 300 would be unusable in this car...

When has that ever stopped anyone?

 

[TheBerrynator]

When has that ever stopped anyone?

True true. For now I'm much more worried about handling than power. Had my first track day with the new engine last weekend, and as hilarious as the body roll was, it was not exactly the quickest way around the track.

Can confirm that at least with a K24 an oil cooler is a must. Was seeing excess of 240°F oil temps with ambient temps under 80°. If the weather was actually hot I don't want to know what temps I would have seen.

Engine did all three days @Pitt Race without an issue though, which is 3x what my 1zz did last year at the same track.

 

[BottledFedMR2]

Are the numbers really that high? I'd like a bit more than 200whp, but I'd expect much more than 300 would be unusable in this car.

Yes I have a hand full between 900-1000

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[Codename Bil Doe]

Oil cooler is mandatory on k24 and k20. They will both hit 240° within a couple minutes without one. If you think that's high, you shoul measure the tranny. (Change your fluids)

We have never run a tranny cooler, but we race with 75W90 gear oil which is the equivalent of a 30W engine oil but with high pressure additives. These additives are known to attack brass and bronze ("yellow" metals), so consider this for a dd. Fluid swaps are easy.

For anyone using a LSD, Amsoil and Honda synchromesh fluids are not compatible with clutch types.

 

[TheBerrynator]

Oil cooler is mandatory on k24 and k20. They will both hit 240° within a couple minutes without one. If you think that's high, you shoul measure the tranny. (Change your fluids)

We have never run a tranny cooler, but we race with 75W90 gear oil which is the equivalent of a 30W engine oil but with high pressure additives. These additives are known to attack brass and bronze ("yellow" metals), so consider this for a dd. Fluid swaps are easy.

For anyone using a LSD, Amsoil and Honda synchromesh fluids are not compatible with clutch types.

I was expecting to need to do the oil cooler, but was hoping the larger sump in the Moroso pan would be enough to not need it... Oh well, was probably going to drop the engine over the winter anyways to rebuild the transmission (really should have just done that from the start).

Granted it was a cool day, but I ran Amsoil Synchromesh without issues on track. What's the advantage of running a 75W90 gear oil over a Synchromesh oil? If these heavier weight oils attack brass/bronze, wouldn't I want to avoid it? (I thought the synchros were brass?)

 

[Codename Bil Doe]

Yes the synchros are sintered. I'm jist about to break in and test carbon Suncrotexh synchros. Going thru a long procedure to prep them before install and then break them in mo load.

The Amsoil gear oil is designed for high temps and pressures which the tranny will see. Many people on k20a have reported 280°+ with no cooler.

Although the additives are supposed to be aggressive and attack the synchros, we have not seen this problem at all. These trannies are race only no dd. Rebuilds happen when we have an issue. Otherwise they are not touched.

As for axles, if a "1000hp" axle really did support that level of power, it won't be any stronger than other axles when a boot tears and the cv fails from dirt and contamination.

We have had aftermarket Honda axles from a very well known manufacturer fail. They forgot to grease the cv, but that is not where it failed. The shaft broke at the splines most likely from a material defect.

The only failure we have had on an OEM axle was due to poor cv angle on a swap which was corrected.

All axles will fail. WHEN - not if - they do, I would rather pay much less for a high quality proven OEM Honda axle than $500-700 for an aftermarket set.

High price, alone, precludes people from having spares. The last thing you want at the track is to have a failure and spend the rest of the day staring at the car if there was an inexpensive spare option available.

 

[TheBerrynator]

Yes the synchros are sintered. I'm jist about to break in and test carbon Suncrotexh synchros. Going thru a long procedure to prep them before install and then break them in mo load.

The Amsoil gear oil is designed for high temps and pressures which the tranny will see. Many people on k20a have reported 280°+ with no cooler.

Although the additives are supposed to be aggressive and attack the synchros, we have not seen this problem at all. These trannies are race only no dd. Rebuilds happen when we have an issue. Otherwise they are not touched.

As for axles, if a "1000hp" axle really did support that level of power, it won't be any stronger than other axles when a boot tears and the cv fails from dirt and contamination.

We have had aftermarket Honda axles from a very well known manufacturer fail. They forgot to grease the cv, but that is not where it failed. The shaft broke at the splines most likely from a material defect.

The only failure we have had on an OEM axle was due to poor cv angle on a swap which was corrected.

All axles will fail. WHEN - not if - they do, I would rather pay much less for a high quality proven OEM Honda axle than $500-700 for an aftermarket set.

High price, alone, precludes people from having spares. The last thing you want at the track is to have a failure and spend the rest of the day staring at the car if there was an inexpensive spare option available.

That's good to know. I will say the Amsoil Synchromesh did hold up better than the oil I picked up from the parts store. With the first oil shifting would get interesting once it got hot, but the new oil has been fine. Since my car will still see some normal driving I'll probably keep using Amsoil unless I have an issue. Of course if I tear it down and see more damage than I expect, I may change my opinion on that point.

On the axles... Really wish I knew about those hubs when doing the swap originally. Spare axles aren't an option with the swap axles, but a set of OE axles are cheap enough that it makes perfect sense to keep a second set on hand. I'm not making crazy power, don't really have an intention to ever go beyond 250whp, so even Honda OE are more than enough.

 

[dblotii]

I have had good luck with the Insane axles on my swap; and I haven't heard of anyone having failures.

Dave

 

[Codename Bil Doe]

Good to hear, but at an endurance race weekend we can't be without spares on a race weekend. The other benefit to many people is that stock axles are common parts. If you need a replacement cheap to get by, go to CL/PickNPull/etc. For racing it makes it great to reduce spares. One set for the Hondas or MR2 is great.

@TheBerrynator Amsoil syncromesh is excellent. I run it now. Only switching to their gear oil because Syncromesh is not compatible with clutch type LSD. We race Amsoil Dominator oils. Oil runs 10-20° cooler and doesn't burn off. Maybe 1-1.5qt over a 25hr race.

 

[20v_lover]

The dss shafts seems to be very hard already. There is no twists on the splines just a clean break.

I still feel that the thickness of the outer splines is too thin and the only way to really strengthen it is to use a thicker size spline.

My biggest issue is that the dss shafts are rated at over 380 bhp and i am only making 280 roughly on the fly. I feel they need to drop the rating or fix the hercules heel on the drive shaft.

What i have found.
The hubs i purchased uses the Honda wheel studs i do not know why he did it that way. I had it drilled and using the oem Toyota studs from the old hub.The Toyota wheel spigot ring also didn't fit so i have that machined as well. Will just see which kseries shafts i need to use. I know the FN2 and TSX ones we have here are different lengths.

Will also be fixing my head gasket and upgrading too the crower stage 3 cams at the same time. Will kep you guys updated.

 

[20v_lover]

That's good to know. I will say the Amsoil Synchromesh did hold up better than the oil I picked up from the parts store. With the first oil shifting would get interesting once it got hot, but the new oil has been fine. Since my car will still see some normal driving I'll probably keep using Amsoil unless I have an issue. Of course if I tear it down and see more damage than I expect, I may change my opinion on that point.

On the axles... Really wish I knew about those hubs when doing the swap originally. Spare axles aren't an option with the swap axles, but a set of OE axles are cheap enough that it makes perfect sense to keep a second set on hand. I'm not making crazy power, don't really have an intention to ever go beyond 250whp, so even Honda OE are more than enough.

Same here LOL 6 months of roughly 6000 km worth of driving first day at the track and it snaps on my very first hit.

 

[Codename Bil Doe]

The gear oil with "high pressure additives" attacking synchros is a little confusing and conflicting considering many OEM's use gear oil in their manual transmissions like my Mazda 3. I have not researched this further other than to say we have successfully used gear oil in our race cars, Amsoil Synchromesh in non-LSD cars, and gear oil in standard OEM Mazda transmission from the factory without issue.


Axles rated at "300hp" "500hp" or "1000hp" are just marketing hype. If they have not been tested to failure, then the best they can do is estimate per calculations via metallurgy, tensile strength, and input torque (which varies greatly based on gearing). Materials vary greatly. You cannot "feel" a metal. Some are brittle, others more ductile. Manufacturing and heat treating play important roles in the characteristics of the metal. Simply having the correct ratios of elements also does not mean it was manufactured correctly. Number of inclusions based on processing (single/double/triple melt, VIM/VAR/ESR for ex) make a big difference. Yes, I'm an engineer and study metals.

 

[20v_lover]

The gear oil with "high pressure additives" attacking synchros is a little confusing and conflicting considering many OEM's use gear oil in their manual transmissions like my Mazda 3. I have not researched this further other than to say we have successfully used gear oil in our race cars, Amsoil Synchromesh in non-LSD cars, and gear oil in standard OEM Mazda transmission from the factory without issue.


Axles rated at "300hp" "500hp" or "1000hp" are just marketing hype. If they have not been tested to failure, then the best they can do is estimate per calculations via metallurgy, tensile strength, and input torque (which varies greatly based on gearing). Materials vary greatly. You cannot "feel" a metal. Some are brittle, others more ductile. Manufacturing and heat treating play important roles in the characteristics of the metal. Simply having the correct ratios of elements also does not mean it was manufactured correctly. Number of inclusions based on processing (single/double/triple melt, VIM/VAR/ESR for ex) make a big difference. Yes, I'm an engineer and study metals.

I fully agree with you but surely if guys are breaking these axles with not even 200 bhp then theres an issue and clearly cannot be marketed as 380 bhp.

For the price they charging i would have expected a stronger shaft or revision of it.

Anyway the tsx shafts seems to be the correct length with the use of the shorter half shaft, there might also be a way to
make the ABS speed ring work. I sent the shaft, abs reader and hub back to my buddy and he will try and sort something out for me. but so far it looks very promising. Will keep you guys updated.

 

[Codename Bil Doe]

@20v_lover Can you confirm if those hubs can use stock Honda axles, and if so which ones? I emailed them and never received a reply.

 

[20v_lover]

@20v_lover Can you confirm if those hubs can use stock Honda axles, and if so which ones? I emailed them and never received a reply.

They actually supply the part numbers on the page i got will post pics here. But it does take the oem ones. You need to remove some material on the abs mount to allow the bigger cv outers to fit. I tested them with tsx shafts.