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Discussion Starter #1,341
Serial, What i have here is the one they are calling the iMT with the separate shaft for the fully synchronized reverse gear from the 2020 corolla. The product catalog i'm using does not go to 2020 so i can't 100% confirm the transmission code. It's also not written on the sticker:
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You can also see the shifter locations are different and the left side mount (bottom in that picture) is completely different. The unseen front and rear mounts are completely different also. This is an all new transmission. I know a lot of people call the EA, EC, EB part of the "e series" transmission but they are completely different. the "E series" is just the E153, E351, E52, that kind of thing.

This transmission also has no 1-2 detent, just like the EB60 so it's designed for a lift ring lockout style shifter.

The mounts don't line up with the EB60, the input spline is smaller (which is weird with the higher torque rating) but the output splines match, the same axles might work but i have not tested it.

This may be a good transmission but as roadblaster is saying, the EB60 is great for this application. I've got thousands and thousands of miles of endurance racing on this thing and it really is quite durable. The synchros are fantastic on it and it feels great to drive. And the newer transmissions are not as available as the EB60. They may be available now because there's no demand but if i were to make a kit to support it i guarantee they would all disappear and be way harder to get whereas the EB60/EB62 were in production for 5 years and there was about 110k of them made (though i don't know how many of those were manuals).

For example, i started working on support for sienna wiring harnesses for the MKII MR2, there was over 40 of them available on e-bay and two days after my video was released there were 3 of them left that were poorly labeled. The reality is many people buy up the donor parts when i start calling for them but most of those never go further than that and i fear that this is the same issue with the EB60. Right now with the pandemic we just went through a surge of people buying up project car parts so everything is in short supply. Hell, i can't even get a fidanza 130881 flywheel for my next video which is a bit of a problem.
 

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Sorry I kind of rambled and I agree the EB60 works fine, but here is what I was trying to get at: According to parts.toyota.com, US Corollas were equipped with an E351 transmission through 2013, EC65 transmissions through 2019 model year, and the 2020 model finally got the M20A engine with EG60 transmission. iMT probably doesn't exist on the EC65 as far as I can tell.

The EC60 (or 65?) is this one: JDM 2014-2015 TOYOTA COROLLA 2ZRFE 6 SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION 1.8L 2ZR | eBay
There are tons of them for sale at around 500 bucks shipped, while manual Camrys are like unicorns leaving Scion TCs as the sole source of EB60s. Since the 3ZR is bolted to an EB and the 2ZR is bolted to an EC, I was hoping they would easily swap, but if you say the starter location is a problem then maybe not. (though I was also thinking...belt alternator starter? :eek:...another high effort project for the future)

If I were ready for a modified car in my life right now, I would honestly consider just buying you one of the EC transmissions off Ebay so you can try it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,343
I think you're right that i reversed the trans codes, there's enough confusion around sorry about that. But that brings the next question then, what's the torque rating on that EC because the EG is the one that is rated higher: (note i added the Toyota abbreviation to the image)
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Best i can tell the EC is a 6 speed version of this because all the features i can see on the case match which means it's actually a lower torque unit, not a higher torque unit and the starter does not fit anyways.
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and frankly if i would do starter mounting shenanigans i would just reuse the C series trans. it isn't strong but upgrade parts are available for it and it would reduce the cost of this swap.

Yes, i'd love to make an accessory mounted starter. it would solve a lot of swap issues but that's a whole other project and not for today. at least not for me today.
 

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Ah that's interesting to see. The torque ratings are pretty strange because Toyota fitted the EB to an engine producing quite a lot more than 210Nm, and Lotus has been feeding 250Nm through the "190Nm" rated transmission in the standard supercharged Elise. "BC25" might be the E351, and I wouldn't be surprised if EC65 was just the same thing with an extra gear (in which case, yea, might as well go with a C transmission instead).

If Lotus can get away with 265Nm through the "190Nm" transmission, then... how much torque can the EB60 really take?

Do you need an adapter plate for the C series transmission to the AR engine?
 

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Discussion Starter #1,345
Yes, those torque ratings are likely very conservative. I know the EB60 puts up to a 2GR just fine. I think we should use them more as relative numbers than absolute numbers. like "the EG can likely hold up to 33% more torque". it's also a bit more confusing because torque is not horsepower. for example the E153 puts up to 700hp drag race launches on sticky tires without a problem, the EB60 would likely shatter at those levels. But with sustained power delivery the E153 struggles to handle 300hp, it just builds so much heat that it kills the synchros where the EB60 will happily put up with that all day and not build excessive heat. Even with a cooler the E153 still just builds too much heat.

Almost a decade ago i made a comparison that is still very valid today: 2010 Camry 6-speed transmission (EB62) internal pics...

The 2AR-FE does not bolt up to the c-series transmission directly. it would need an adapter and a starter solution. Otherwise i would have used it for the swap and made everything so much easier. the EB60 would likely have been an option also but not a necessity for this swap.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,346
Back to A/C for now. the latest bracket fits without any modification:
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so i need to clean up the model for manufacturability and then send it off for a pre production sample then a proper production run.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,348
Does the ac plug on the 2ar harness match the 1zz compressor wiring? Is the stock 2ar accessory belt the right length?
Unlikely on both points but the connection is a single wire so you can use any connector you want here. weatherpack makes a bunch of options for this.

For the belt length I'll have to measure it but it will be longer than the previous belt.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,349
I think i finished all the little "glitches" with the 3d model so i can actually send it off for manufacturing. I just need to put the 2D drawings together with all the manufacturing instructions and it'll go out:
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I'm still going back and forth on the material. I can't just use A356 aluminum, it's just barely strong enough and does not leave enough of a safety margin. I'm discussing the options with the shop that will be making these parts, they may go to a higher grade aluminum or maybe i'll have to make them out of steel.
 

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I was thinking the other day, having a look at the 2arfe Hybrid motor, the 2arfxe i think its called, anyways it seems to have a head and power curve more suited the higher RPM, They seem the be the same price here in Australia as a normal 2arfe, I think the mentality is, make it make more top end power and let the electric motors deal with the holes lower down in the RPM.
Either it might be an option to bang this head onto a normal 2arfe as it might flow better, or have differences in cams or the likes. Or it might be option to just use the whole motor and bin the hybrid specific stuff off it.

Something to mull over.
 

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The FXE is going to have different pistons and different cams but everything else is likely the same. Both engines are meant for low rpm efficiency so I can't really think of a reason for them to use a different casting to change the ports. The cams have more duration, but probably identical or slightly lower peak lift, so you may still want to regrind them, though there should probably be a small high rpm bump compared to stock. To find out, you can buy some and compare (surprisingly, I didn't find any on Ebay...): 2014 Toyota Camry Engine Camshaft. A lobed shaft used to open and close valves - 1350136030 - Genuine Toyota Part

A really cheap way to get pistons is to borrow some from the FXE and machine the crown a little to drop the compression from 13 to 12 (or lower). You need to take around 6cc out of the piston, which reduces its mass by 16 grams.

One more thing with the FXE is that I think you can borrow peripherals from it. For example, you can run the Toyota OEM electric water pump and possibly have the belt go straight to the alternator (from pictures it seems like it may barely clear if coming from the AC compressor, and probably would clear if AC is deleted). If you want more mpg, you can borrow the cooled EGR unit (would take a lot of electronics tweaking to make it work though, I imagine no one is ever going to try this). That's a few free horsepower. You may even be able to rewire the Toyota OEM electric AC compressor for increased torque and lower speed and retrofit it.
 

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yeah but if you have a high comp bottom end you could maybe then get a 2arfxe and put a 2arfe head on it and run all stock inlet etc and remap for higher compression
 

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Well it appears the valve springs are also identical: 2014 Toyota Camry HYBRID Engine Valve Spring - 9050134016 - Genuine Toyota Part

So if you want to save effort, the easiest thing to do is buy an entire 2AR-FXE, then fit the belt-driven accessories and intake manifold from the FE, and run it with the other ECU. I believe the camshaft is positioned so that you wouldn't even need to adjust the VVTi. You would want to reduce ignition advance starting at around 4000rpm or so, and add some toluene, xylene, or ethanol to your tank.

The risk of course is that you may need to rev it quite a bit past the stock limiter to fully take advantage of the cams, and the stock rods might not be happy going to those speeds with the heavier pistons. IMO, you don't mess around with that, forged pistons are worth the money to prevent a hole in the block. If you're content with ~7000rpm, then I guess this could be a cheap way to instantly gain 10% more power if you have access to very high octane fuel.

EDIT: I just realized the 2AR-FXE CR is 12.5 not 13, which is easier to work with.
 

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Sorry to keep going back to engine upgrades when most people probably care more about the actual swap kit, but I had an idea around pistons and connecting rods:

How about reproducing the stock connecting rods in a stronger material, slightly shortened if moving the wrist pin into the ring land for the stroker is a problem? I'm not sure what alloy Toyota uses, but if 4340 doesn't have higher fatigue strength, then 300M certainly would (I think it's around 10-20% higher). If you gain 20% in strength over the stock rods, that's 10% more rpms with the same piston mass. I think you can safely go to 8700rpm with a 20% lighter piston with the original stroke, 8200rpm with the 2.7 crank.

I know that's not 9000rpm but your valvetrain doesn't seem like it's going to make power at 9000rpm either. I suppose that if due to coil bind you aren't able to get more duration out of the stock cams, you could try regrinding the FXE cams which have a "wider nose".
 

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Discussion Starter #1,355
Sorry i missed the notification on that post. Shorter rods would avoid needing custom pistons but the stock pistons are more of a limitation than the stock rods. Plus longer stroke pistons still have enough space for the stock ring stack and spacing without having the pin into the oil control ring land.

And just as you mention, the rpm limitation is the valvetrain, not the bottom end.

And i really do want to spend more time on engine upgrades, they will come for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,356
Also, i just finished the model for the A/C bracket. There was a bunch of little spots that needed some polish before being ready for production.
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It's been sent out to manufacturing at this point but I haven't gotten a production timeline estimate yet. I will update you guys whenever i have that.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,357
Tiny update on the A/C. Got word back from the mold makers and they think this casting is very likely to warp and will need to be pressed back into shape after it cools. This isn't a problem but it means we need to change the material from cast steel to cast stainless steel because it will survive the pressing. So these will be stainless steel. But it's a relatively small part so the weight won't be much, about 1.45lbs.
 

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im not phased if it is stainless and would probably prefer, only thing is if its only a little bit of warpage would it not just flatten out when you fit it.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,359
yeah, there's no disadvantage for stainless, just thought i'd share the info out. As for flattening when bolted up, it probably would but there's two problems with that. I don't want to deliver crooked parts and it's also really hard to machine a crooked part and it has to be machined after it is cast.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,360
Oh, and i forgot to post earlier, the estimate from the production shop is 45 days to production samples and then 2 more weeks for the production run. So we should have this final part in September.

The new waterneck will be available before that.
 
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